The Buzz with ACT-IAC
The Buzz with ACT-IAC
The Human Element in Tech and Mission with CIO, DOC Brian Epley
In this episode of the Buzz , Pete Tseronis interviews Brian Epley, Chief Information Officer at the United States Department of Commerce. They discuss the intersection of mission-driven technology and humanizing government initiatives. Brian reflects on his journey from the private sector to public service, emphasizing the importance of understanding the mission, building partnerships, and continuous evolution in technology. Key topics include the role of AI, cybersecurity, and the significance of data in driving outcomes. Brian highlights the need for mentorship and a service delivery mindset in achieving effective leadership and impactful solutions in government.
Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform to never miss an episode! For more from ACT-IAC, follow us on LinkedIn or visit http://www.actiac.org.
Learn more about membership at https://www.actiac.org/join.
Donate to ACT-IAC at https://actiac.org/donate.
Intro/Outro Music: See a Brighter Day/Gloria Tells
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound
(Episodes 1-159: Intro/Outro Music: Focal Point/Young Community
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound)
PETE: [00:00:00] Hi, this is Pete Tseronis and I'm here today to, uh, have a conversation with my good friend and colleague, uh, Mr. Brian Epley, who you'll get to know a little bit about through me and of course through him and his journey. Uh, I. This is the Buzz Podcast, and what we try to do here is simple, is to have a conversation that matters where we engage with government and industry and academia and talk about mission and technology and value to mission, but also getting to the individual, the leadership.
PETE: How do we humanize. The individual, but also the technology that the federal government invests in each and every day to advance that mission each and every day. So, uh, Brian, it is great to see you. It's been a minute, but, uh, you look great as well. Thank you. I appreciate that, man. I, I try, you know, I'm 58 this year, so, uh, as I like to Thank you.
PETE: I remind people, I've got a, a, a freshman in hunt college and I got a, uh, sixth grader, so,
BRIAN: wow.
PETE: I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. I wish I could say one day I'll retire, but, uh, [00:01:00] down the road. Um, Brian, I'm just gonna read a little bit. I mean, your, uh, history, your, your journey. Uh, for those of you who don't know Brian, he is the Chief Information Officer at the United States Department of Commerce.
PETE: You can Google that and see all this wonderful stuff. He's worked in many organizations, both public and private, and, uh, we're gonna hear a little bit about that in the, uh. Impact that each of those stops have had for you along your career at Energy EPA VA early, as we discussed in our prep call, you got 25 years experience across public private sectors.
PETE: We are at the ACT IAC headquarters here in, uh, Fairfax, Virginia, and you also serve as a vice president at large for the American Council for Technology Executive Committee. So I'm stealing some of your thunder, but most importantly to me is things like Virginia Commonwealth University. PhD candidate George Mason, and, uh, for anybody who's gonna watch today, we hope that you get to see that there's a side to this gentleman who is, uh, [00:02:00] wonderful, but also more than whatever that professional role is at the time.
PETE: So it's great to see you buddy. You as well. Thank you. All right, my man. Well, listen. Floor's gonna be yours here. Why don't you, you know, talk to me and, and those that will watch this and listen a bit about that. Personal and professional journey, what brought you in, you know, not only to the commerce department, but you know, your professional career and, and, and where, where are those stops?
PETE: Where have you been?
BRIAN: I'm still working to figure that out, what I want to be when I grow up, but, , it started, , actually in the private sector, as you mentioned. , I worked for, , hospitality industry during my undergrad, , and I got exposed to a company that came in and retrofit our, , back office systems.
BRIAN: And that's when I got the bug in network. , , and followed a path. I actually left college and pursued a job traveling across from the United States, , doing modernization. , And I'm not gonna date myself, but uh, it was everything from point of sale and back office systems to satellite telcos and how we pulled information, data back to, to run the [00:03:00] business.
BRIAN: Um, I eventually went back to, uh, you mentioned Virginia Commonwealth University of Goran. Yes. Yeah, to finish. New
PETE: coach. New coach. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Saw the billboard when I was driving down.
BRIAN: They're doing well. Um, but that was a, that was a great time. You said it in the opener about everything's gotta be humanized.
BRIAN: I'm glad to hear that because I say it all the time. You have to be human first. And so you're talking about a professional journey. Uh, but the human aspect of it is the community that I, I thrived in, in Richmond, Virginia when I attended Virginia Commonwealth University was fantastic. The reason being is because it was a university campus immersed in the business community.
BRIAN: Uh, Richmond's a tiny little city town, but it had all of the characteristics. Six that someone could thrive in that space. Um, the university itself had a public private partnership arrangement where a lot of the, uh, alumni were giving back, and so I got my first entree into mentorship, uh, in that space.
BRIAN: Um, and I got a job when I went back, um, [00:04:00] under the guise of an internship. Um, but I was working, you know, 45 hours a week and going to school full time. Back in those days. Um, and again, it's, it's the journey that you put together, but I, I learned how to solve problems and the tremendous value of partnerships and relationships.
PETE: So, quick question. 'cause being kind of, there's a little geek inside of me and I, I, I came out of Villanova and wanted to be a sports broadcaster. I tell that quite often, and this is kind of living vicariously through my former self, I guess, that if, that I had pursued that. But I got to spend time when I worked in government at the Department of Education and I fell into the data center world.
PETE: And I'll date myself since I've told everybody I'll be 58 this year, but this was in the early nineties. Mid nineties. So you have a little that, uh, you know, if you, we will expound on that a bit later, which has led you to, you know, being a, a thought leader, a technologist, you know, a visionary. You understand the importance of technology and the underpinnings was that [00:05:00] experience in telecommunications and as I call ping power pipe.
PETE: Influential in that journey to, to what we'll talk about, you know, in terms of where you are today.
BRIAN: Great question. , And the answer on the surface is absolutely yes. But for me, I think what was unique on that journey is that having left college and and doing work, , that was business focused, business driven, I learned, , a customer service and outcome mindset.
BRIAN: It's all about experience. It was before cx it. Afford dx, , I'm not taking credit, but I'm recognizing and connecting the dots between what I experienced then on my journey and what we're, what we're pursuing today. , But the combination of, of that service delivery mindset and learning technology as it was evolving, um, enabled me to solve problems.
BRIAN: It was, it was not the crossroads, it was the convergence of business and technology and I, I would call myself a business person [00:06:00] and leverage. Gene technology. 'cause I'm not a full geek. I can't take that credit. While I love technology, I see technology as a catalyst to achieve business outcomes. Mission drivers.
PETE: Yeah. You know, Brian having, you know, known you and worked with you and, and chatted with you along some of those stops, uh, I get it. And it's like in the federal. Sector, and maybe we can, um, talk a little bit about, you know, your, you know, you were in government, you were in industry, and, and having that perspective, you know, I've been in it for almost 10 years now, and, you know, I spent 25 years in government.
PETE: I always felt like I needed to check that box. And you were able to check some of that. And the influence that working in industry had working now in the federal government. Maybe talk a little bit about that. You know, I think for the audience, because people see you as. You know, a, a Chief Information Officer, and sometimes we all are recognized or defined by, oh, he worked at Energy, Pete Saroni, or at the Department of Education, or before that Department of Defense.
PETE: It's like, [00:07:00] no, we, we serve a mission that is different. And just because cloud and AI and cyber are things, you know, which credit to you, because I know you're a studier, but you also are humble enough to say, Hey, I'm not, you know, the smartest guy in the room. You have to do that homework to understand how to apply it to the mission.
PETE: So talk a little bit about that experience and industry and what it taught you, which led you to be. What I will say is a very successful federal employee serving, you know, in a capacity in the executive service.
BRIAN: My journey to the executive service for federal government has been unique 'cause I started in, in private sector, in industry and then actually had an entree into state government.
BRIAN: I worked in Virginia government, , for a handful of of governors, and I had the opportunity to develop a repeatable IT service model that is still in place today. I'm proud to say, , and. And while I was pursuing that, , I got a call to pursue a PhD, which brought me here to George Mason. , Go [00:08:00] Patriots.
BRIAN: . , And , that study was an information security assurance, but the underpinning element there, and I'm trying to connect the dots between that journey and, and what brought me there. I, I got a call from the Department of Veterans Affairs. They were implementing HSPD 12. CAT cards. PIP cards. Yes, sir.
BRIAN: So, I, I thought this is fantastic. This. Is a convergence of technology and government, and it would allow me to pursue, uh, my area of study and PhD specifically in cryptology, um, and the certificates that were being born at that time, um, in PIP cards. And so when I came in, I, I had a portfolio of work and I was looking at this through just a business lens of what problems do we need to solve?
BRIAN: Not your traditional, you know, government employee. , And I wasn't thinking about titles and I wasn't. Even thinking about leadership, I was thinking about the outcomes. Why was I here? What could I do to make a difference? Um, and, and through that mindset, everywhere I've gone, I think that's contributed to my [00:09:00] success.
BRIAN: But to your question about, you know, the executive service and the federal government, , I left, you know, VA and actually went back to Virginia to help them modernize it, , over a long haul 10 year program. I wasn't there for the whole time, but help them get to that next level and that evolution. , But over.
BRIAN: Time I came back into the public sector as a contractor. So I went back to industry. , And you're talking about ping power pipe. That's what brought me in to implement newer technology at that point in time. There was a point in my career. Where I had to decide what, what do I want to be when I grow up?
BRIAN: Is it continuing on, you know, program to program different clients, different clients? , And there was an opportunity that arose, , that I thought was a perfect match. , I didn't think I would be a, a federal government employee or an executive for that matter, but it was just a perfect match. And so I jumped at it, , and it, and it paid off.
BRIAN: I think what I brought there was not just an outside perspective, but an outcome, a service delivery mindset. Mm-hmm. And so what I. Did is I [00:10:00] was able to contribute to the evolution of that agency's journey in itself. , And I made a lot of relationships, built a lot of partnerships, coalitions across the continental us.
BRIAN: Um, that's what it takes. That's the sweat equity that you gotta put into it. That is not in the job description of a senior executive or a leader. I think that's the difference. When you lean into these things and embrace the problems, that's when you are seen as a true leader.
PETE: So, can I riff off that?
PETE: 'cause that. So wonderful to hear, and I'm, I'm sure those listening, uh, if you've worked in government, uh, if you serve as a industry partner to government. I mean, I'm in this second half of my career, I experienced government. I had a bunch of wonderful contractors that supported me, and there was always a fire in me to be like, I want to be a contributor.
PETE: I don't want to feel like I'm a, in this case, an individual with a bunch of really smart people around me. I'm a smart guy, but I don't know everything either. And your point [00:11:00] about whether you're a GS seven. Or you're an SES building partnership and coalition, um, sweat equity hopping on planes like I know you've done in your career visiting our national labs and, and leaving an impression where those folks, whether it's at a lab, a university, or an industry.
PETE: Say he cares enough to try to understand what it is we do. And I, that's, that's a testament to you. And I guess what I'd like to ask is, you know, in your time in industry, Brian, having the optic of supporting the federal government or state or just an industry, how to think. About how the government solves problems.
PETE: You mentioned problem solving. I believe that it's not about buying and selling, it's about seeking and solving. Um, what's something you would say to industry who is calling on government? I talk about do your homework. Don't just show up and be like, Brian Epley is the CIO of an agency and he's been one before, so he thinks this way.
PETE: Every agency's different. [00:12:00] Right? The mission and how you apply technology. What, what is your message to some of the industry partners on that? That homework theme?
BRIAN: If I were to answer the question in one word, you said it's mission. You have to deeply understand the mission of that agency. If you can't understand that, then you can't empathize.
BRIAN: You can't embrace the challenges and the opportunities that lie in that, in that organization. I think that's where it starts, and I think that you have to get out and, and meet the entire workforce. Not just the federal government employees, but the contractors that are there that are keeping the lights on, that are making these things.
BRIAN: Happen. And through that 360 degree perspective, , you get a broader understanding of how the, that aligns with the mission. , And, and the challenge and the opportunity is the same point. It's just how you're looking at this. Um, and I think you have to embrace not only, uh, the people, but the ideas they've been there, whether it's a year or a decade.
BRIAN: They have insight in terms of what the challenges are and where they can go, , as a [00:13:00] leader. . We have to focus on and give vision to that, we have to convey that vision to not only the workforce but our stakeholders. So they fully understand what you're doing. Where are we focused? What's our true north?
BRIAN: By doing that, then you can empower the workforce to accomplish those outcomes. And, and then obviously any leader's gonna have traditional performance management, , to, to track those metrics to ensure that we're, we're making progress to plan course correct, we're appropriate. , But I think that that plan that.
BRIAN: Overarching approach is how you embrace the workforce. You embrace the challenges, you turn those into opportunities. You put the workforce out front, you get behind them, you support them. Give them what they need to accomplish the vision that you've set for.
PETE: I have to build off that now as we kind of move into this, this the technology component.
PETE: 'cause it's, it's so cool. You haven't mentioned one buzzword, which is cybersecurity, cloud computing, ai. Data analytics. [00:14:00] You're talking about culture. Yeah, that's what I'm feeling. And, and I love that. Um, and I know the importance of that and trust takes time. But the fact that you're talking about the stakeholders, whether they're, you know, in the headquarters or they're a, a GS seven year mentoring, you know, folks who come into the government, it's, it's for mission.
PETE: And I hope our audience knows that at some of your stops, it, it's not one mission, uh, you know.
SENTURE AD: Join Century and a distinguished panel of government and industry leaders for a dynamic discussion on how emerging technologies are making a real world impact. This isn't just theory. It's a chance to hear from experts who've applied innovative solutions to solve complex challenges, drive results, and deliver on mission critical objectives through their live case studies.
SENTURE AD: The panelists will share valuable lessons learned, showcasing how they leverage technology to create tangible change in moments that mattered most. From AI to automation, they'll explore the [00:15:00] tools that are reshaping industries and enabling progress at every level. Whether you're looking to jumpstart your own initiatives or execute with greater purpose, this session offers practical insights and actionable strategies you can take.
SENTURE AD: Back to your team. Don't just hear about the future. Be part of shaping it. For more information, please visit csu.com.
PETE: All right, Brian, we've talked a bit about culture and partnership and you know, again, I applaud you for, for not geeking out quite yet 'cause I wanna pivot into that space. Uh, the government arguably known as the largest purchaser of it, federal government support and services for years, upon years upon years, the investments in technology to support mission.
PETE: Is a phrase, a lot of folks will say, we can do that. Um, my question was always like, well, what specific capability will support what element of the mission are we talking about here? Vendor X. And that would always be a fun conversation, but there's no silver bullet. [00:16:00] So putting on your visionary hat, you are a technologist.
PETE: Yes, you're a community builder, a collaborator, and that is amazing stuff. And you've got some of that geek in you. What are some technologies or maybe even capabilities that. That are impactful today, some of which our audience will be familiar with, but dived a little bit deeper into some of those if you want.
PETE: And, and tell us what excites you about how technology will influence government, uh, services to citizens in the future.
BRIAN: That's a great question. I'm gonna start from the very last part that you said, impact to citizen, uh, that's the un uh, excuse me, the outcome and the impact of, of, uh, my service delivery mindset.
BRIAN: Um, I tend to look at things in terms of what's the vision, what do we want to accomplish? And achieve and then reverse engineer into that space to come up with a plan that's not only the vision, but it's also the action that we're gonna, you know, take to get there. Um, as far as the technology piece goes, , I think that we're at a, [00:17:00] a very critical point.
BRIAN: , A lot of terms are used. You mentioned buzzwords earlier, modernization. , I think we're past that. It's, it's not cloud first to cloud Smart, but think about that. Evolution. So you take zero trust architecture, we push everything to the new edge and envision this space between that new SaaS edge, um, and what we've done from an architectural standpoint.
BRIAN: Uh, not just infrastructure, not just cyber, but overlay the culture that's necessary to embrace and, and take those things to the next evolution. There. It's, it has to be a continuous evolution. So the technology today truly is a buzzword, and I'm not trying to discount that, but. I think that the space that I was talking about in between our new edge and where we are today is how we embrace technology like ai, like quantum.
BRIAN: What is that space gonna look like over the next five years, 10 years? I, I dare even say that far out because it's rapidly changing so fast. [00:18:00] That's why we have to be nimble and kind of plan to evolve, make that in. It's the continuous evolution of.
PETE: I, I, I wanna just jump in and, and we can, I'll actually pose a question because continuous evolution, you mentioned zero trust at the edge, cybersecurity, uh, you know, analytics come into data is the new fuel.
PETE: But I loved your modernization. I like to talk about, there's modernization. I. Can lead to transformation, which can, you know, always hopefully be in a continuous state of innovation. And, you know, those are buzzwords, but the government talks a lot about we need to transform and modernize, et cetera. But I love what you're getting at is, well AI is not one thing.
PETE: It's the application of it. How will we tie some of those capabilities and doing some of that due diligence? So let me, let me further this. As a technologist over the years? What, what, what, when you're sitting across the table from, I, I don't know, it could be a an OEM, it could be an integrator. Um, do you find that the dialogue and getting down to distilling of, look, I know you have a great [00:19:00] product.
PETE: I won't mention companies, but like, um, do you find that, that having those conversations are helpful because it's really important, is it not to make sure that anybody. Looking to solve your problems and not sell you something, uh, is speaking to a capability based on the mission so that the agency can, you know, be in that continuous model, not buy it.
PETE: Uh, land and expand is a term I use or, you know, let's just buy this and implement. Um, isn't that dialogue important in those early stages with, with the vendor community
BRIAN: A absolutely. And I think that, uh, speaks volumes to the necessity of not just relationships, partnerships. Um, I tend to look at things on a five year investment cycle, but that doesn't mean that it's from year one to year five, there's gotta be an overlap.
BRIAN: Um, and the partnership is gonna help you, , peer the corner and understand what's happening. In industry, in technology and, and bring that to bear in terms of achieving not only a mission today, but how the mission is gonna change. [00:20:00] Uh, how does the mission change if you're in, you know, uh, theater on the front lines, that's gonna change dynamically.
BRIAN: When you think of traditional federal government, you think of executive orders and regulations, but what we're really talking about is saving lives and impacting citizens. So it's really about the services that we deliver. And so when I looked at technology and that evolution, , it's solving problems today, but it's actually taking things to the next level.
BRIAN: , And what I found in my career over my journey is that that embraces more and more people, people want to be a part of, of those you said cultures, those organizations, , we're not recruiting on that, but it's just a natural, I wanna be on that team.
PETE: Yeah.
BRIAN: , And, and when you're on that team, it's not the color of your badge.
BRIAN: It doesn't matter whether. You're a federal employee or a contractor. We're one unit embracing the technology on our collective journey as we take off. You said something, data is the fuel. , I think that, this is a good example. Data is the fuel, but I think data is the [00:21:00] gold of every organization, whether you're in private or, or public sector.
BRIAN: Um, and, and I think the sooner that we as organizations and leaders embrace that, I think we're gonna be able to bring value to our customers and stakeholders faster. But I'm putting that out there. Because, uh, the challenge has to be accepted by everyone that wants to play. Partnerships are comprised of public and private sector.
BRIAN: So what do I mean by data? If you're in one organization or another agency, that data's gonna be different, but we need to be able to understand what that means to our collective stakeholders on the outside. So whether it's paying taxes or trying to get a permit, or just understanding where the local DMV is.
BRIAN: So I can get my, my real id. These are all examples of where we're having an impact. And the data that's behind that varies. But I am one individual with those different attributes across that space, and it behooves us as leaders to understand that in a, in a large, grand scale.
PETE: I'm gonna wrap this part up with, uh, you know, you've stopped.
PETE: At a [00:22:00] few different places along your federal journey, and it's really interesting if people do the due diligence on you, is they're critical infrastructure sector, risk management agencies, the water we drink, the energy we consume, the weather, the public health. Um, so I encourage the audience, you know, really take away critical infrastructure mission.
PETE: Brian, you've, you've been there and you understand that the sectors are what we as human beings, citizens, residents in this country depend on every day because the government is very, very, very, very important to, uh, that. And uh, I think that's a nice and wonderful takeaway, whether it's AI or data.
PETE: Absolutely. We didn't hit cyber too much, but I'm gonna bet that you would probably go down the risk mitigate as much risk as you can when you think about cybersecurity. Unless. You wanted to have a comment about security?
BRIAN: , I think cybersecurity is one of the top three. Um, I would put, I'll call it experience, , and data.[00:23:00]
BRIAN: Those are probably the top three. That's the trifecta. If, if you're not able to, , manage those three elements, then your chair's gonna fall over and you, we would've problems. Um, there's a lot more that's not to leave the rest of that out. But it is the whole of the person, it is the whole of the organization, how we come together to deliver on those things.
BRIAN: And if cybersecurity, , isn't baked into the culture and the mission that you're delivering on, then you're gonna have more risk. And it is fundamental risk management. It's not just risk in terms of profit and loss. It's risk to product, it's risk to delivery. And when you think about the citizen on the, the tail end of this, can we really accept that level of risk that impact is detrimental?
PETE: That was a, uh, a parting shot of parting shots, even though I'm gonna ask you for that now. So, hey, Brian, listen, I could talk to you more and more, and I know this was a taste. I hope the audience understands this is a perspective, you have a unique perspective, and your journey is one that I think anybody who is a mentor to you today, or, uh, whether you ever meet them or not, will benefit from this.
PETE: So I wanna thank you. [00:24:00] For swinging by and thank you and seeing you, but, uh, this is your chance. You know, we talked about a lot. What's your 32nd parting shot that you wanna leave with the audience based on what we, we talked about today? You said
BRIAN: mentors. I think you, wherever you're at in your journey, seek out mentors, plural, more than one.
BRIAN: And then on your journey, you need to become a mentor. You gotta find a way to give that, give that back. Um, life is an experiment of experiments, so get after it. What do you wanna solve tomorrow? , And I would look for people that are already solving problems. Don't be prideful and, and not be willing to adopt what someone else has already solved for you.
BRIAN: And get close to that. , And don't be afraid of the problems. You need to swell at the problems just as much as you're swelling at the solutions. Uh, and with that mindset, you'll never be alone,
PETE: buddy. Keep paying it forward. And thank you to everybody who, uh, tuned in and is listening today, tomorrow, and at some point in the future.
OUTRO: What an amazing and insightful conversation Act. IAC is a [00:25:00] volunteer driven organization. As a member, you have the opportunity to engage, learn, and lead Act. IAC is for individuals and organizations who wish to shape their own destiny and are committed to excellence, collaboration, and integrity. If you'd like more information about participating in our communities of interests, professional development programs, conferences, events, and much more, please email member.
OUTRO: support@actiac.org. We'll see you on the next episode.