The Buzz with ACT-IAC
The Buzz with ACT-IAC
Fellows Speaker Series: Small Business
Fellows-only panel focused on small business success in the GovCon space. Whether you're looking to grow, partner, or simply gain deeper insight into the current landscape, this episode is your chance to learn from leaders who have built, scaled, and sold small businesses in today’s evolving environment.
Featured Speakers:
Kim Hayes, KBR (Former Owner, The Ambit Group)
Pawla Ghaleb, CEO, PBG
Raza S. Latif, CEO, NuAxis
Janis Garcia Keating, CEO/President, Wilco Group
Moderated by: Mitzi Mead, CEO/President, Anakim Consulting
The conversation highlighted the importance of trusting one's intuition, building strong banking relationships, and the emotional toll of significant business decisions. Despite the hardships, every panelist affirmed they would choose to start their businesses again, pointing to the fulfilling aspects of entrepreneurship.
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Intro/Outro Music: See a Brighter Day/Gloria Tells
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound
(Episodes 1-159: Intro/Outro Music: Focal Point/Young Community
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound)
Yohanna: [00:00:00] WE ARE THRILLED, TO PRESENT THE Fellows-Only Small Business Spotlight event, THAT TOOK PLACE ON Tuesday, August 19, 2025. WE HAD A GREAT PANEL THAT SHARED AMAZING INSIGHTS! ENJOY!
MITZI: . Alright, well good evening everybody.
MITZI: I'm Mitzi Mead. I'm the CEO and President of Anakim Consulting and I'm really happy to be here tonight. This is our second fellows, uh, speaking event. We wanted to have the panel of. Fellows who are small business owners, which, and I'll introduce our panel just briefly. They're really gonna introduce themselves and we're here tonight.
MITZI: We wanted to do this event because of what's going on with our industry. We have a lot of people who are going for changing jobs or moving out government and saying that they wanted to start their own business. So what we thought, and that's why we're doing it tonight, we had to, we know that end of August was not the great, greatest time to do this.
MITZI: People going back to school, um, et cetera, the children. But, so we decided we were gonna take this, the first thing that we were gonna take so [00:01:00] we could put it out there for our fellows to, to talk to. And I want to thank Scott who, this is our second fellow speaking event. Scott Bowen is going to take over, uh, with Colleen Law, these fellows, uh, speaker series going forward.
MITZI: So if we have topics, thank you. Thank you volunteers. Here you go, Scott. So how I'm gonna do this is we're gonna have everybody, and the first time I'm me tell you, we had a really good time. When we had, and unfortunately Pawla wasn't able to join us, but we had a really good time when we did our prep meeting.
MITZI: We had a lot of fun talking about, you know, all, you know, business owners. So talking about what it takes to own, own a business. So we have actually have a lot of fellows who are business owners. Um, I picked this panel because kind of everybody's in a little different, a different stage, and we kind have the whole, kind of the full stages of small businesses here, people, and they'll go and tell you kind of where they are and what they're doing.
MITZI: So what I'm gonna do, we have Janis, Pawla Raza, and Kim, and they're gonna [00:02:00] introduce themselves and we'll, we're gonna do, we're gonna introduce themselves and their company. Um, tell us what professional develop Act. I, I was a partner in 2001. Uh, what professional development, um, program they went through.
MITZI: And then also what your socioeconomic category was or is. And then also as we talked a little bit earlier about when you started your company, did you start it by yourself? Did you bring in partners and what that means? And so I'm gonna turn it over to Janis. We're gonna kind of go this way.
JANIS: Um, hi, I'm Janis Garcia Keating.
JANIS: Um, I am the CEO and President of Wilco Group, which specializes, um, in software development, data analytics, A lot of, um, the strategy, uh, work that, uh, goes around, uh, implementing systems as well. Uh, we, um, started, well, I forgot the partners part, so, uh, as partners 2023. [00:03:00] And uh, yeah, I was also, um, in the growth of leadership in women, uh, in 2021.
JANIS: And, um. Let's see. I was also supposed to talk about, well, what's your socioeconomic? Oh, socioeconomic is, uh, WOSB. MBE, um, and eight A. And could you explain what a WOBE is? Oh, yeah. A woman owned small business. I should, is that what they say? Wbe.
JANIS: And, uh, then last but not least, uh, I did start the business, uh, on my own and I did so, uh, when I had a 2-year-old and I was six months pregnant with my second child. Um, so, and the reason why I bring that up before I pass it on is because there are many different paths to business ownership, [00:04:00] and it's important to emphasize that you can start in one place and strategically know you want to go another place, but you can also have strategic pauses.
JANIS: And still good to where you're going, so by myself, but you know, I, I don't think, uh, that's the only way to do it. And how many years ago? 2010, uh, when I got the, uh, great opportunity to work with Scott. Ah, so good to see you.
PAWLA: Yeah. Back in the day. Thank you. Uh, I'm Pawla Ghaleb. I am a graduate of Voyager, dare to say 2011.
PAWLA: Yes. Kim actually was the industry co-chair, if I remember correctly. Uh, I'm also the founder and CEO of PBG. Um, PBG is an eight, a woman owned small business for now. Um, [00:05:00] and we specialize in the integration of, uh, strategy, cybersecurity infrastructure, um, and AI automation. Uh, we have, um, over 10 years been in the business in the devcon industry, uh, providing overall digital transformation services across different, uh, critical missions across the agencies, federal agencies, and I would say most recently, uh, PBG designed, um, and deployed the very first, uh, secure, uh, cloud infrastructure for the presidential transition team, um, which is considered, uh, today the model environment for other agencies that are looking to modernize.
PAWLA: Um, I started the business, um, I established a business in 2010. However, I did not actually, um, start working [00:06:00] on the business until I left my full-time job, and I was in mid 2013. And in 2013, I. Um, brought on my brother, who is today our CFO, and, um, he became a partner. And then in the beginning of 2014, I brought on another partner, and that is Vanessa Soon.
PAWLA: Uh, and the three of us have been, um, running against Scaling PBG to what it is today.
RAZA: Okay. My name is Raza Latif and some of you have already heard me, heard my story, so I apologize. Um, I am the CEO at NuAxis Innovations. I was partner 2018. So, uh, very interesting journey as a partner in show. We talk more about it, in fact, um, to talk about business owners coming to the Partners program. I, it was hard for me to convince the committee to because they thought that I'm a business owner and they were looking for VPs and I think I broke that [00:07:00] mold.
RAZA: And then after me, there were, there were other, uh, CEOs and presidents who joined, uh, in terms of the company. We've been around for too long, and I really, every time I think about it, I'm like, what? What do we have to show for it? We have a lot to show for it, but you know how we are entrepreneurs, we very satisfied.
RAZA: So I, you know, I came to the US in 20, in 2000 as a 25-year-old man, so, you know, and I just turned 50 a few, few days ago. So thank you. So, um, you know, so for me, you know, I came in and I, I found a very, very, um, an amazing mentor who's, who's also business partner. And we started very early in this, you know, this was the end of the.com era, so we wanted to build products and we had a government contract, and we thought the government contract will help us pay the bills while we will be bringing the, the balance, the stock exchange with our, you know, uh, uh, whatever product, magic product.
RAZA: Um, but, you know, [00:08:00] trial and error. We, we realized that the government space is where, you know, all the action is. Um, I don't know, however many years ago we started to, uh, focus on that. We were, uh, classified as an eight, a very long, a long time ago. Then we were classified as a small business after the eight A ended.
RAZA: We did not, did not do much with the eight A program, but we can talk more about that, how to leverage that more effectively. So then I think we were able to leverage a small business, uh, space of our 'cause. The eight A ended and the small business remained. Um, and then we have, uh, graduated from everything.
RAZA: We had no designation for the last three, four years. We actually did a graduation party where we, you know, we were so nervous about graduating that we said, you know what? Let's just celebrate. And we had a graduation party. And from that point onwards, it's been tough. Uh, it's been really, really tough. Um, and, you know, the market is also shifting, but even despite the market shifting or not, I think just being in that new man's land is pretty tough.
RAZA: That's tough. Yeah. [00:09:00] Tough.
KIM: Uh, Kim Hayes, I, I was the founder and CEO of the Ambit group. I started the company in, uh, 2004. I'm also a 2004 partner. We were the small business of the year in 2004. I was the, I think the individual contributor partner of the year in 2004. Um, I originally had two other business partners.
KIM: One partner out of the gate, uh, was a partner because she actually had an existing GSA schedule at the time getting a GSA schedule was sometime somewhere near the other side of purgatory. Either didn't wanna go there or I didn't really wanna go there. Um, she was within six months of losing the schedule 'cause of an award.
KIM: So our first contract was with my, one of my longstanding customers at Department of Commerce, who I actually knew ACT IAC. Uh, so I think I said on, on LinkedIn the other week that ACT IAC has been foundational in, in my network, which was foundational in building my business. Um, we put, as Sarah, you might know this better than I as ambit, I think we put something like 12 to 14 people through partners, Voyagers and Associates.[00:10:00]
KIM: Maybe more than that. Yes, because maybe one of mine. Yeah, Sarah. I mean, we put a lot of Spencer. Yeah, Taylor, Spencer Taylor, I mean, Aton, Jillian, right? So to me, ACT IAC was that place where I felt like if we invested, it would invest back in us, and that was very important. Um, I sold a company at, in two, in 2022 after having taken on some capital, done a couple of m and a.
KIM: Um, we were one of the first women in service disabled veteran owned small businesses to open. I am the service connected disabled bed. When we opened. The set aside was not actively used. Scott will remember this. So for our customers to get to us, we had to compete full and open. Um, that was how we got outta the gate.
KIM: So we never really, I think, changed that tone in our business. We remained 98% Prime contract until the time that we sold. Um, our claim to fame was that we helped recover almost $200 million in operational overruns and cost avoidance and the programs that we ran for the federal government, it was always by accountability.
KIM: [00:11:00] Um, I have the. I've had cancer three times, had a couple of divorces,
KIM: whatever. Um, my kids called ambit, the fourth family member. They still do because if you are going to successfully run a small business, you are gonna live, eat, drink, sleep, go to vacation with it, go on holiday with it. I took my first ever vacation while employed, um, in June of this year without a cell phone.
KIM: But I went to work for a publicly traded, so I retired, decided there was no way I was retiring. I'd like to do some board work one day, I'd like to do some other things. And I said, well, I wanna do something I've never done before. I'm gonna go work for someone else in a giant organization that's publicly traded.
KIM: We can have cocktails later. You know, the thing that I'll tell you is that you often hear how when you get to the other side, and I see it down on the other side, you'll hear about how small is this? And small smalls that small businesses are much more. Are [00:12:00] efficient, effective, and on target than any other organization you're gonna get if their CEO and their leadership team, keep them guided.
KIM: You cannot take your hands off the wheel. And if you're getting into small business and you think you're gonna have more downtime or more flexibility, please, you cannot take your hands off the wheel at any point in time. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. I came out of cancer surgery and answered emails like, that's your reality.
MITZI: Yeah. And we're gonna talk a little bit more, more about that. So, so that's kind of the first brush. Now we want to go back to you guys. We're gonna go back the same way. And we go and we want to say, I wonder, the question is, why did you start your one company? Why? Why did you choose your name, choosing your name's very difficult.
KIM: Mm-hmm.
MITZI: And then what's your culture? So those are kind of, that's kind of three big questions, but just kind of quickly through those things. So why did you start your company? Why did you choose the name, and what do you think? Talk about the culture of the company.
JANIS: So. I am always, I've [00:13:00] always been entrepreneurial, even when I worked for large companies, uh, like Pricewaterhouse and Unisys, and when one says like, what do you mean you've always been entrepreneurial?
JANIS: Um, you know, even when I worked at large corporations, I, I kind of always wanted to aggregate with like a group of super performers and, you know, I wanted to like, you know, solve problems, you know, um, and, and not necessarily get caught up, um, in the corporate processes. And so that's one of the reasons why I started my company because I was like, I don't, um, I wanna serve the mission, you know, I, I, uh, you know, have a master's degree in public policy and, you know, was always interested in public service and I don't really, I'm not necessarily, uh, concern.
JANIS: About, you know, uh, the 32 different processes of, you know, x, Y, [00:14:00] z, large multinational corporation. Don't get me wrong, having processes, um, you know, and CMMI compliance and everything like that is very important. But you also don't want to focus on processes. Um, instead of actually, uh, putting your customer's problems first, I would argue with people, um, that, you know, uh, we should maybe even break the process or abandon the process, or I would try to negotiate, like, you know, because I'm like, my customer needs this and it doesn't fit.
JANIS: So that was one reason. I think the other reason, um, that I started my own business was that, uh, I wanted to be an employer, uh, that was responsive. Uh, and also, uh. In responsive both to customers and to the employees themselves. Now, that doesn't mean, kind of like Kim said, that, you know, I'm gonna [00:15:00] drop my life, you know, and, you know, give myself over to employees.
JANIS: But what it does mean is that, uh, I'm not necessarily, uh, somebody that, uh, sits atop an organization, um, and they can't ever get to know me. I'm accessible, maybe is the, is the right word. Um, and then culturally, um, I I, I'm gonna say something that's very aligned with what I said earlier about the processes.
JANIS: I felt like adherence to processes are great, but that we also have to have cultures that recognize people's differences and recognize different people's motivations. And also where people maybe are, uh, in different. Uh, different spaces in their life or maybe different places is a better way to put it.
JANIS: And so to kind of wrap that point up, sure. You know, it, [00:16:00] it's great to have a corporate culture, um, you know, that focuses, you know, on similarities. Um, but I like to highlight the differences because I think that you can actually get strength from those differences, um, while still trying to come together.
JANIS: Um, you know, with those commonalities. And that strength is the strength of, um, delivery where I might have a different opinion or a different background or a different experience, um, than someone else. And them looking at the problem, you know, from a different side of the queue, um, brings more flavor. Uh, to the solution and is actually at the heart, um, a culture of delivery.
JANIS: Uh, so I kind of went around in a circle there, but it's, it is a culture of delivery that emphasizes the [00:17:00] strength and differences. And why Wilco. Oh, why Wilco? Uh, so Wilco is, uh, short for Will Comply. Um, my father, uh, was a career military, and when I say career, I mean 30 years. Um, combat wounded, uh, veteran Vietnam riverboats, the Brown Water Navy is like, is what we call it.
JANIS: Um, I grew up on military bases all over the US and a little bit overseas. He didn't retire until I was in college, so it's like a fabric of, of who I am and it's a, so it's a call to action and service. And so to me, I wanted to, you know, because I think. As in as people, we might start businesses for different reasons, but you know, part of that is our upbringing and what we value and what our parents and maybe mentors teach us to value.
JANIS: And so to me [00:18:00] it's a call to action and a call to service. And then of course it even goes further back because my paternal grandfather was a World War II cv, um, who served in the South Pacific. So I am, I am all Navy.
PAWLA: Alright. Um, so similarly to you, I've always considered myself to be entrepreneurial as well.
PAWLA: And um, the reason I started PBG, it was something that I had in the back of my mind, um, for a long time. So I came to the United States in 99. Oh, okay. What year exactly. And um, when I, during college, I worked for a business, a small business that. Used to provide it services mainly to GSA. Um, and it was around that time I'm like, you know what?
PAWLA: I'm gonna be able to do this one day. So it stuck with me. It was always in the back of my mind. But then as I gained [00:19:00] experience, I worked for small, mid-size and large businesses and, um, I always, there were things that I really liked that I said, okay, when I have my own business, I want to carry forward.
PAWLA: And there were things that I didn't like that I wanted to do differently. There was a lot of processes with red tape, bureaucracies, hierarchies, and, um, I felt like I couldn't really make the real difference, the difference that I wanted to make for our clients. So, um, this is why I initially wanted to start PBG and also being, um, an immigrant and minority, uh, woman, I really wanted to kind of prove to myself.
PAWLA: Is that, uh, an immigrant woman can actually create a small business that did things differently. Um, and especially at the time we've been in business for quite some time, this is a very much a male [00:20:00] dominant industry. Um, and I really wanted to again, prove to myself how I can do it in this, uh, in this world.
PAWLA: So this is what made me want to start PBG, and this is what carried forward in how we have, uh, scaled PBG and the culture that we have, um, fostered within PBG. So from a culture perspective, it's really a culture of empathy, compassion. We really care about each other. So I used to call it the PBG family and the word family has a lot of negative connotation in the workplace because it means you're being unrealistic.
PAWLA: These unrealistic expectations of everybody. And I like to say PBG is as close to a family that, uh, a workplace can be. Um, and it's about people that really care about each other. They really care [00:21:00] about their clients, about their clients' mission, and they have each other's back and their client's back.
PAWLA: And this to who it comes through. And I'll, I'll give you a quick example. Last week, uh, PBG um, unfortunately, um, had a, a very unfortunate event that happened one of our long time, uh, PBG members passed away and to see how the team rallied around, his name is Abi, rallied around Abi when he was at the hospital around his family and then how they continued to rally around.
PAWLA: As you know, he, uh, passed away even our clients. Was there, they came to the hospital, they were supporting us as well. So to see that, that really made it very clear to me, first of all, that it's all worth it. And two, that this is exactly the culture that we have fostered and that we [00:22:00] have built at PBG.
PAWLA: It's a culture where actually it's rooted by genuine care, genuine empathy and compassion for each other. Um, so that's, that's really PBG's essence, PBG's culture, the name. Um, when I first established PBG, I would say I was not clever enough to think that the name really carried a lot of weight, so I just used my initials.
PAWLA: Um, but then, uh, a few years later, I still remember I was sitting at my desk late at night working and it just dawned on me that. Really what we are building as a team, we are building it with a lot of passion, a lot of boldness, and a whole lot of grit. And the light bulb came on, I'm like, oh my God, PBG, yes, this is exactly those three words, passion, boldness, and grit.
PAWLA: Those are the three words that really [00:23:00] carry us and embody how we show up every single day and how we serve our customers and the missions that we support. So, uh, today, that's what p bt is known for. Okay.
RAZA: Okay. Uh, so, uh, for me, why we started the business, I think for, for, it was kind of similar to what Pawla, you said it was more of the immigrant hustle. Right. You know, I landed here as I said, and I, you know, I felt like I have not been to college in the, in the US and I felt like that, you know, I made a lot of friends and they were all on different paths working for the Deloitte of the world and the i News of the world.
RAZA: And, you know, I felt like. That I, I, I need to, um, you know, I need to kind of announce my arrival as well. So I think that was the starting point of it. And it is not like that, it just drove me to sit down and write a business plan. It was just kind of the underlying feeling that I, I need to, you know, really, um, uh, claim my place in, in, in, in society, uh, and only in [00:24:00] America, right?
RAZA: I mean, you know, two years of landing in the country. I was, I was a, I had a, I had a business. I mean, um, and that, that is just, that is just commendable. So I think, and then as I, as I was kind of alluding to earlier, we wanted to build, uh, we, you know, we started another company to really start building products and get the.com, you know, uh, you know, ring the stock exchange, you know, whatever bell.
RAZA: Um, but, but then we realized that the real value in our ecosystem here is, is government contract, which we were doing a little bit of. Uh, we were all billable. So my business partner and I were bill billable at government site, and then during lunch break, or early in the morning or after work, we'll be working on these products.
RAZA: Uh, but when we kind of brought everything together, that's when, you know, the new access kind of, uh, business took off. Um, and then the name, I, I, you know, uh, we, uh, this is once [00:25:00] again.com. I'm the most senior kind of person, you know, everybody's 10 years old. We started in 2002, so before 2002 we actually, there was a thing called, you know, domain names.
RAZA: People would register to main, so we would come up with, try to come up with cool names and just register them because you could just register.
RAZA: I wish we had built that that time. And we actually, one of the, one of the domains, opnet sold for a hundred thousand dollars. That was when we saw like, real money, because it was actually somebody's brand and we had it and they were like, oh. Ha. So we, we were one of those people. Yes, we were, we were the bandits, you know, the early day bandits.
RAZA: So, so, so then we registered like 10 domains, and one of them was NuAxis, and it was just like, it's a, you know, so we, we registered NuAxis, and when we were starting this, this company, we were like, okay, okay, let's look at the list of domain. And then for us, you know, you had a great moment with, with, you know, passion bonus.
RAZA: Great. For us it became a [00:26:00] liability because Bush Junior, in one of those, uh, state of the Union says. There is a new axis of evil. There is a new, I'm watching it on tv. I'm like, oh my God, this is different
KIM: spelling.
RAZA: But, but still, it was not as bad as, there's a company in Denver called ISIS Technologies. Oh my God.
RAZA: So when I, when I, when I saw them, I was like, oh, we are so much better. So yeah, we just took the name and we just kind of grew into it. Right. I mean, it was not like anything, it was just the NuAxis of innovation, you know, whatever.
KIM: Good story. So I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. I am the oldest of 30 plus grandkids on one side of my family.
KIM: My family farms tobacco. I used to help my grandparents who could not read, do the books when I was seven or eight years old, help handle farm hands, everybody coming in and out in the line yards. So when you grow up that way, like hustle is just kind of in your gene. You don't really know anything else.
KIM: Um, I went into the military during Desert [00:27:00] One for the college. I could not, I had a full ride to school, could not afford to stop working. Had I stopped working, my mom wouldn't have been able to pay to keep the lights on. So I was like, okay, what's my option? I went in service. I got hurt on active duty. Um, it's not the journey I was expecting.
KIM: I was expecting to go green, the gold and I came out in a wheelchair. So, you know, when I got my degree, I went back through vocational rehabilitation through the VA program, walked into the VA center and it's full with cigarette smoke. And I go up to the counselor and he says, all my girls are teachers.
KIM: And I said, well, actually what I'd really like to do, all my girls are teachers. Do you want the money or not? Yep, I'll take it. So here you go. So I head off to college under both rehab and I triple majored with a special forces husband and three babies because that was the only way I was gonna get the degree I wanted while they were paying for it.
KIM: So you do what you gotta do and you gotta do it. You know, the foundation of entrepreneurialism, right? So fast forward, uh, we've moved to DC I've come to work in this business. I'm working for a [00:28:00] woman-owned small business. I find this thing called ACT IAC, which she considered to be an account. You weren't allowed to attend it if it wasn't your account.
KIM: Then I went, well screw that. I'm going anyway. So I started getting to know everybody got really involved and our small business program. So Leslie, you'll probably remember this, Mitzi, I know you do. I actually helped write the best practices of paper for the small business program. That was, you know, 19, oh my God, 2001 maybe.
KIM: Something like that. So getting involved with it, I came in through other people's small businesses and started seeing what the world was small, could be. I had not worked in large. I'd come out of the military, my degree in education. I'd seen the systems like that. Um, we, I kept getting on programs where I was helping to define it, design it, ideate it, create it.
KIM: And then it was, well, okay, you can hand it off. And then the minute I went to hand it off, they go, no, you gotta come back 'cause it's not being done well. And I think I sat up one day and went, well screw this. I'll do it for myself. And that was about a week before public law came in place, setting [00:29:00] up the woman owned service.
KIM: Well, the set up the service disabled veteran owned business status. So what we didn't know is we wouldn't have status for a very long time. So we went out on our own. Uh, John Con and I were working together at the time, went out on our own as one of the first SD BOSBs. We made it a W-O-S-D-B-O-S-B, um, you know, and it was a tough road at the beginning.
KIM: The name Ambit though has, was part of our soul. We were coming from the world of consulting and consulting around technology. John had great experience with the government programs. I was working some of e-government initiatives. And what I found is that we would hire consultants to design something that wasn't implementable.
KIM: We'd bring in technology companies who couldn't translate the, the strategy. We'd forget there was a strategy. We'd buy more technology. And it was all these spheres or silos that weren't working together. And we began talking about this concentric approach where we can bring all the spheres together. To create an ambit.
KIM: So an ambit is just that. It's those interconnecting spheres working towards a common goal. And [00:30:00] that was the motivation that we had for building a company that consulted differently. We were coming in at a time when you were still seeing $400 an hour in the government for consultants, and I said to my team, it's not going to last.
KIM: You're going to begin to see integration. Contracts for consulting is integrated in because we can't afford to sustain this as a country. We can't do it. And that is what happened. So we were in position to be able to capitalize on that. For me, the passion goes back to where I grew up and the military service.
KIM: My entire family's active duty. I have a son's, a Marine Raider now. My daughter served in the Coast Guard, my ex-husband's special forces. His family's had a service member every generation since the Civil War. We are a military family. I believe that we owe our fellow, fellow citizens good government. And if we're not willing to do what it takes to deliver good government, we should out.
KIM: And it's probably why I came back to work. I got really tired. It takes. But you know, our small businesses bring a ton of thought and energy and complexity that gets missed if we're not [00:31:00] very careful. I would say to any of you now I'm on the other side, if you haven't done the other side, large business side, there's a better way to sell your small businesses into these big companies.
KIM: And now that I'm here and I'm seeing it, I wish I could take everybody and sit 'em down and go, don't do that. No, no, no, no. All those things you think are working, they're actually not. Let's rethink how you're positioning yourself. But um, and Kim, you know that you live it, but yeah. So for us, it was a passion.
KIM: It was a calling. Um, we used to keep our corporate values on the hallway in the building. We build the building. Every area, you know, you help get 'em put on there. Right? Here's my jaded point, and it's very jaded. Be really careful, and I think you're right about family conversation. It's really cute and it's wonderful and it's warm when you're small.
KIM: When you start scaling and you start taking on capital and you've got investors who have different priorities and you have other people coming in. All those things that you value in all those cores, you better be willing to flex because if not, you're gonna run your business out of business. And [00:32:00] it's very hard when you have people that you love and you have loved them, you love your staff.
KIM: And I, I, I've been to several funerals. They're the hardest thing. You cry as hard as you, you can imagine. Your role has to change when you get to your size and you get out, strike you. And it's hard. It hurt my heart. I cried more nights than I can tell you when you have to start laying off employees because your numbers aren't there.
KIM: 'cause you hit COVID. 'cause whatever you have to do, what you have to do to sustain the entity
MITZI: because if you don't, the rest of the people, everybody else is gone. Yeah.
KIM: And when people love your soul and your soul is in your business, it will eat you alive when you have to make that transition.
MITZI: Well, and that really can, that brings us right around to one of the things we were gonna move on to about.
MITZI: Oh, go ahead.
Could I ask a question of Kim? Sure. Because I think you're the only one up there that has gone through this, and I was fortunate enough to go through it in 22. Um, when you sold your company. Yep. Um, could you talk a little bit about that? My problem was the [00:33:00] control, right. I, I no longer had the company, which I put my heart and soul into our company.
Uh, the employees were as close to family as possible, and we still do reunions. We're still doing stuff like that, but, but it was hard, like just that piece of being, letting go of something you did day.
KIM: Yes. When the paperwork was done, the next day I woke up the next day my cell phone wasn't blowing up and I literally sat down.
KIM: My husband brought me coffee in bed. I'll get emotional for giving for that. My husband brought me coffee in bed and I literally sat there. I gonna offend, turn around. I just like, what do you want me to be?
KIM: You know, honestly, safe face. We had, we had gone through a couple of run up to possibly exiting. So the thing we got told three times, and by the way, if you ever exit, you don't, you don't exit one time. There's going to be several runs to the gate before you actually get to the gate. Every one of those runs
that ninth hour night, never get to the [00:34:00] 11th.
Right? And
KIM: what, and can, you can say this, what, what you are you're gonna learn is every time you get to that gate, it takes something out of you. And you have to wake up the next morning and find your core again and push again. And every time you think you're at that edge, because while you're getting to that gate, you're exiting, you're being pulled out of things, you have to step back.
KIM: You can't tell your employees that's happening because they'll fail. You hope you have a leadership team that's covering for you. And there are stories I can share on that and they won't be in public. But here's what I'll tell you, right? You're losing part of you every point of that. And for you to actually exit, you have to remove yourself from the business or you will be devalued.
KIM: And nobody tells you that. You cannot keep your hands on the wheel the way you've always done it. You're gonna have to hand parts of the wheel to other people who can become your succession plan and the transparency that you need that drives your operations and your [00:35:00] success is going to go down. And it's all happening at a time when you don't know if you're actually gonna close.
KIM: And if you don't close, you're gonna need to pull some of that back every time and get back control of the wheel. And what happens is your employees see the seesawing and they don't understand what it is, and you can't communicate it to them. So you know if you can do it better. How about it? Tell me, God, I'd love to watch.
KIM: But let me tell you something, it will take your soul. Out.
MITZI: Well that it's important. And that's, like I said, that's one of the things we wanted to talk about when we, when we met, we were talking about how difficult, you know, everybody, everybody here would say they love having their own small business or, you know, s midsize and Kim's out now.
MITZI: But, but then it's difficult. It's not for the faint of heart. So we want to, we want to talk about, and I love Janice said, alright, we're not gonna be a negative Nelly, but be a bunch of negative Nellys out here. But we do want to talk about that. It's very difficult, it's difficult to start it, it's difficult to grow it, it's difficult to get, then, then you get to the [00:36:00] stage where Ross is, that he's competing with, with the world.
MITZI: And then it's, as Kim said, it's typical then to, to do the exit. So you want to talk a little bit about just your thoughts on that?
JANIS: Yeah. Um, I mean, I, I think some words have already come up in our conversations like grit and resilience. Um, I mean, I think the other thing that we haven't, we've touched on, but um.
JANIS: One's, uh, tolerance for, for risk mm-hmm. Is, is very important. And, you know, it's, it's everything from, you know, the financial risk. Um, you know, depending on where you are in the stage, uh, you know, your business. I mean, one of the things that Pawla and I were talking about right before we started tonight was that, you know, there was a six month period earlier this year where, you know, group wasn't getting paid.
JANIS: And, you know, we were doing work, you know, uh, we, we had great customers, you know, this [00:37:00] was the, the invoices were approved. You know, you, you could actually call the contracting officer who you knew, and they're like, you know, they, they felt terrible. But I mean, it's hard to articulate how that feels when you're going through it.
JANIS: Um, not only for yourself, because, you know, it's like, okay, I have a mortgage to pay, you know, uh, you know, my father was enlisted military, you know, not that I'm complaining about that, but you know, I don't have anybody who's gonna send me some endowment, you know? Um, and so you're not only trying to, um, you know, make sure you can pay your own obligations, but you have employees and people who, you know, we've all talked a little bit about who you want to be transparent with, but you also, you know, don't want to needlessly scare 'em.
JANIS: And so you just take deep breaths every day and say like, okay, you know, done this work. Like legally we're gonna [00:38:00] get paid. Um, but taking a step back from, from those, you know, kind of examples, I would say that, you know, the other thing that I think it takes is really, um, understanding why you want to go and do a business.
JANIS: Yes. Because. You know, Raza and I were talking about how sometimes things flow and you go like two years and you know, you feel like everything's going great, but there's always gonna be bumps, whether it be COVID, whether it be, you know, what's happening now, whether it be a government shutdown, you know, shift in the marketplace, a billion different variables.
JANIS: And so, you know, um, I, I'm rather bookish, you know, and so like one of my favorite books is, you know, um, Man's Search For Meaning, uh, you know, which is about, um, a Holocaust survivor. And, you know, one of the things that, and he happened to be a psychologist too, when, when he went into, uh, you [00:39:00] know, the, the concentration camps.
JANIS: And my point is, is that, um, he survived and he wrote this book and he talked about, um. The, the people who were most likely to survive, obviously did not have any, you know, real, serious health conditions. I mean, that's a whole, you know, they were younger, maybe healthier, but also mentally they knew why they wanted to keep going.
JANIS: Whether it was because they wanted to see their children, or whether it was, there's, there's not a right or a wrong answer to these things. Maybe you want to, you know, write, write your own book, you know. But the same applies to businesses. And so when things get tough, you know, when you, you know, are in a place where you're on time number three of trying to sell your business, and you're doing that seesawing back and forth, and you're having a gut check and you're wondering, you know, have I been doing things right?
JANIS: You have to [00:40:00] reground yourself with that. Why? Like that initial, and it doesn't have to be one why, but it, it, you need to know for sure. Because otherwise, why are you doing it? Um, you know, you, you could probably go and work for another company and, you know, whether it be small or big and, and do financially well without a lot of the headaches.
JANIS: So to me, um, I feel like that is something that, you know, should be considered when starting your, your own business.
PAWLA: Entrepreneurship is hard. It's hard as hell. Um, and especially if, you know, you're starting a business from scratch, it's a high risk, it's very demanding. You're 24 7 on, there's no such thing as, uh, like you said, you just went on vacation without a phone first time, 55.
PAWLA: Yeah, it's the first time I've ever been on a vacation [00:41:00] without being connected. So that it's, it's, you are literally working around the clock and, um, I still remember when we. First started, the first few years, March, 2016, uh, department of State sought us and awarded us a sole source. Um, and I had to hire 12 employees to support that contract.
PAWLA: I would wake up in the middle of the night having panic attacks. I couldn't breathe 'cause I was so worried. You know, I only interviewed these people, but I've met each person for what, an hour at an interview? Are they really gonna deliver? Um, how, you know, I'm now responsible for these people's livelihood, their mortgages, their families, um, are they going to do right by PBG reputation?
PAWLA: What is gonna happen? So all these feelings, and this is when I lost a lot of my hair, full blown panic attacks. Um, as an [00:42:00] employee, I don't know that you would necessarily experience something like this. You know, it's with. 24 7 and it, it never stops. So even this year, I was, I will share with you all, this year has been the most challenging year for me on both a personal and professional level.
PAWLA: And, uh, from a business perspective, we have had to make incredibly difficult decisions to lay off very talented people that we care deeply about. And that was fricking hard. I cried, they cried. It was not easy. I still remember, you know, both of my partners and uh, a couple members on the leadership team, they basically had to hit me down and say, Pawla, you have to make these [00:43:00] decisions.
PAWLA: You know, we can't sustain. Like this is not a choice for you. And I took my time and I would go home that night and I would come back the next day and I said, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. I'm, I'm not ready. But, you know, eventually I had to. And that really, really broke me. And the only reason I would say that I kept waking up the next morning and fighting and continuing to believe in what we're building is the people that I was laying off literally were more worried about me than me, worried about them.
PAWLA: They knew that, they call it PBG is my baby. And they were more concerned for me. They would send me messages of encouragement. Um, and that's really what kept me going. So, back to your why, having that strong, why, why you're doing this is what, what keeps you going? [00:44:00] Um, and that's incredibly hard.
RAZA: That's very impressive.
RAZA: You know, you know, when you, when we use the word hustle, when I said hustle and we talk about hustle, you know, the image that used to, or image that used to come into my mind was Saturday Night Fever, John, John Travolta. This is the hustle, right? The hustle is not, you know, being this aggressive person who's going and fighting for whatever their place.
RAZA: The hustle is exactly what Pawla just talked about, that the sleepless nights, the panic, the really, the, the, I mean, investment in the small world really kind of, you know, as invested as you would be in a child. That's, that's what the hustle is. So I think that's very important to understand and it's, it's hard and it's, it's, it's gonna sound controversial.
RAZA: It does not, you can't learn it, right? It's, it's, it's the hustle. I mean, you can learn everything else. I think [00:45:00] there's some people who have this kind of, uh, ability to really connect very strongly with, with something that they're doing. To the point of, of what you were saying, all the experiences that you have had, and hopefully not in the future, but it's, there's a good chance that many of us will have because, you know, we are still on those journeys.
RAZA: You are out of it. You're, you're fine.
KIM: Oh, I'm sorry.
RAZA: No, in terms of purpose, you know, the book that you mentioned, you know, that, you know, I'm gonna get out of this. And so the purpose is, is very important why we're doing this, and I've said it for the last 20 years. People ask me, what, what do you, why do you, why are you doing this?
RAZA: And I said, you know what? I have this, I want to build something which is, is a, is a place that I'm just using like symbols here. It's a place. And I'm overlooking that, that place. And I'm on a, on a mountain top and I'm looking at it, it's beautiful. It's lights, it's lovely. And there's a song playing in the background.
RAZA: We built the city of rock and roll. Oh. And that's, that's said that.
KIM: Jefferson Starship.
RAZA: Yeah. So that's that. [00:46:00] When somebody asks me that, that's all I'm thinking. I'm looking at this place and I'm like, you know what? I'm one of the people who helped build this thing. Um, and, and the song is kind of celebrating that place.
RAZA: And that's it.
KIM: You know, the honest, I'm first generation, love my family's dirt freaking poor. I grew up in eight, 14 by seven, and we were worried sometimes if we'd keep the lights on, my kids were never gonna live that way. Mm-hmm. And you better believe in what you're doing, and you better be willing to grind.
KIM: But my kids were never gonna live that way. Mm-hmm. And to Pawla's point, when you have to lay people off, when you have to change things, it will tear you in half, but you better do it. And if I, and I said to these guys, we were talking like, what would you do differently? I'd have been a lot harder or a lot sooner, and I made decisions a lot faster.
KIM: I probably would've backed off the family conversation a lot sooner and talked about the [00:47:00] consistency of a business that kept you stable, probably would've protected my heart a little bit more.
MITZI: Yeah. Let's move into that. Let's go ahead and do that and have that conversation because we're already 50 minutes in and, and because I think that's really important.
MITZI: I think that's kind of the thing that you guys are here for, to learn and what we talked about is, all right, looking back, what would you do differently? Would you do it again?
KIM: Oh yeah,
MITZI: and any advice you wanna give? So we'll back. I mean, sure. I,
KIM: I, I'm out right? And I'm, I'm out, but I'm out. And people have said to me, why would you start doing it on our small business?
KIM: Um, the only way I'd start have small businesses is one of my kids make me do it. It doesn't mean I wouldn't go in and, and, and take everyone in trouble and do it again. I mean, there's days I miss that, right? I'm in an organization right now that I really do enjoy being in. I enjoy working with people I work with.
KIM: I enjoy the depth, the breadth, and the capacity that I never had as a small business. It's very interesting. And, you know, one of our core values was continuous learners. I'm learning. everyday, that's fun for me. Like I get to have fun for the first time in my career. I [00:48:00] used to say something. It's, it is very controversial.
KIM: It's probably not very polite. And I'd say the only indentured servant at Ambit is me. And what people missed is you can leave any day when you work for somebody. Those of us who built those businesses, we don't leave our, our ankles are in the concrete in that building. And if you got an employee who's mercurial or they're having a crap day and they're gonna poop all over you, or they decide they're gonna take a contract with 'em somewhere else, you know, if I had, if I had been where I am, beat the power of a 50 plus woman who has no whatever's left to give, right?
KIM: Man, I wish I'd known her at 40. I, I'd have done some things really differently. But it makes you who you are, right? Like it. It all makes you who you are and you can't go back on that. You can, I think as small business owners, be really careful of every consultant who wants to help. Okay, I'll be the jaded person.
KIM: I'll come right up here and say it. My first question then would be, have you [00:49:00] had the hustle? Have you run a small, have you exited a small? Have you built a small? Do you know what it means? Do you know how to market my small elsewhere and hold him accountable? If you want to come pontificate to me on how I run my business, you need to walk out that door.
KIM: 'cause I've got other things to do with this money. And that may sound jaded, but I'm gonna tell you something. I spent a lot of money listening to people who didn't know what it took and had never done this because they had the right career somewhere else. Didn't mean they were bad people. If you haven't done this,
KIM: there's a lot to be said for, right? The other thing I'll tell you is you're gonna get to a point where you have to stop running your company and you have to start being outside and it's not ACT IAC. I love ACT IAC. I'm a passionate ACT IAC supporter, but it's not. It's with all the bankers. It's the other organizations.
KIM: You've gotta know the bankers. You've gotta know the, the HR people. You've gotta know the CFOs who are marketing themselves. You've gotta see the people who are out there. You [00:50:00] have to build a brand for yourself that is in that side of the community. That's very different than what's comfortable for us here.
KIM: Until you have that brand, you can't take your business and do what you need to do with it next. And you're not gonna get the investment capital. Kim, you know this story as a woman. When I, we went for our first fi, our first round of financing with the company, actually had a banker come in. I was married, but we did not have, we did not have joint assets.
KIM: We did not have joint assets, and it was my business. And so the banker came in and said, well, I'm gonna need your husband to sign. I said, exactly why? And he said, well, because that's how we do it. I said, not in my door. You don't. That's what happened to me too. I said, not in my door. You don't, because this is my.
KIM: This, and it's my account and it's my wealth and I built it. And when he insisted, we had a different army based conversation about the door. And so I found a different banker. The only way I was able to [00:51:00] find a different banker though, is I had been in that community. I had built those networks. They knew who I was.
KIM: I could make that call just like you need your government customer network, and your partner network. If you're gonna build a business to scale, you better know that. You're gonna have to pull yourself out of that and go build another side of your business acumen and, and connections.
MITZI: And I got Kim. I'm glad you brought that.
MITZI: 'cause that was part of the things that we had on the list too, to talk about the, the financial discussion, importance of the banking relationship. Banking's huge.
KIM: Banking's
AUDIENCE: huge. Yeah. And to your point, nobody teaches that there are no classes in that. It's really finding the right person to talk you through it.
KIM: And I, I've said to business owners who called me and they're like, oh yeah. And I said, look, I'll, I'll help you with any way I possibly can. And if you need a lot of help, yeah, you're gonna pay me. I have other things to do, but what I want you to know is you have to have those connections. And by the way, if you start going down the path of bringing in capital, oh, please God, call me.[00:52:00]
KIM: But as you go to bring in capital, there's all kinds of capital. Some of it's not good, some of it's great, but if you don't have those connections and you get in trouble and you need to pivot, you're not gonna have any anybody pivot. So you have to think about that external network, almost like your own pipeline.
KIM: And it's a different kind of pipeline. It's your CEO pipeline. And then at that point you better have accountability measures to track the people who have to take over the nine jobs that you did. Because we all know as CEOs and owners, you don't do one job. You do every job in the building. And you know, for us, when I was building, I was always like, oh, my team is short staffed.
KIM: I'll take on one more job and let them have a break. I wouldn't do that again. Mm-hmm. There's things I just wouldn't do again. Not because they were terrible, but 'cause in hindsight, I had more value than I gave my own self credit for. And I think that's the familial sweethearted, human-centric [00:53:00] owners nightmare.
KIM: You started this business because there's something unique about you that does something that other people don't do. And when you stop doing that because you're getting unfocused or pulled or being told by advisors who haven't walked your walk, what you need to do, if that little, that little thing is in your gut, you need to listen to it.
KIM: It's, it's a huge lesson. And you don't, no one teaches you, Kim. You're right. No one says no. You have to now go over here and do this, and here's what performance measures look like. And don't trust everybody I know they hugged your neck and they told you they loved you, and they told you how great you are.
KIM: You need to know what's going on in your email behind your back. It's a reality. It's
RAZA: not a popularity contest as well. It's not, it's not a popularity
KIM: contest. I mean, it's, now I look at it and I think about raising teenage boys and I, I'm like, I should run the business more like I did my boys.
KIM: But it's, you know, that way I [00:54:00] do it again, I do it any day. It's the reason my family's life changed, period. I take care of my mom and my dad. I take care of whatever I have to take care of. I would never have been able to do that had I not done the journey that I'm on. So, ultimately my why was answered and yeah, you're right.
KIM: When we had shutdown downs and we had to worry about pay and all those other things, every time I was like, I'll go in debt, I'll do it again. I, I wouldn't do that if I were you. You need to keep yourself financially stable. You have to make sure you can put your own oxygen mask on first to keep the business going.
KIM: Yeah.
MITZI: Raza do you want add?
RAZA: Yeah, no, I think, you know, we are, at the end of the day, we are also, you know, CEOs and business owners as kind of like a, a very large kind of characterization. We're also individuals. We're all growing, we are all, like, to your point about if I knew this at 40, I would, you know, if I knew what I knew.
RAZA: So we are all kind of going through that, and part of our learning is also part of the company's journey, right? So it's, I think it's, you know, when I imagine myself doing what I did, you [00:55:00] know, 10 years ago, over two years ago, I'm like, oh my, how did I survive? How did I get it? This is like, you know, I was like, it was silly, whatever, you know, but, but you know, then I, I'm a little bit forgiving that, okay, you know what, it's okay.
RAZA: You know, the word was willing to forgive you, and you, you kind came through. So I think, you know, your own journey is a, is a big part of it. Um, and yeah, I totally agree. I think it's, uh, it's making those tough decisions, getting yourself, uh, you know, out of the business. I mean, I, I just make the connection, you know, Pawla's 12 employees at the bottom of the state, your interaction with the bankers.
RAZA: I mean, at the end of the day, any business, especially ours is about connecting with people and, and really. You know, the bankers also, you know, they will, when you build a relationship with them, you build a good relationship with, with them, they will do things for you. Same thing with the, you know, your first one employees to your, you know, 10,000 employee.
RAZA: It's going to be that, that kind of a feeling. And, you know, I disclosed it [00:56:00] by saying that, um, you know, somebody asked me, how do you, um, you know, what, what is your culture, right? I mean, I think I missed that question earlier on. And I think, um, I, I meet and Kim would not be very happy with this, with this answer, but, but, you know, but this is who I am.
RAZA: I cannot change it, right? So when I'm talking to a colleague,
RAZA: this, but my, I'm always concerned, what am I going to do? Where am I falling? That's I'm, and I'm not even, that's what's driving me. I'm like, I know. I'm an imposter. I've just gotten here, you know, and I, where am I? Where am I feeling? Where am I, where am I falling short? And then I talked to more successful leaders there in the conversation with a very clear question of, what, where are you falling short and what are you not?
RAZA: Right? So, yeah. So I mean, I think it, it is a, I'm struggling with it, you know? I, I feel like it is, it is as much of a weakness as, as it, [00:57:00] it is a strength. But, um, and how scalable that is, how sustainable that is coming, you know, what you were saying is so, so, yeah. I mean, I love your thoughts on, I think everybody
KIM: has imposter syndrome that's successful.
KIM: I, I, I could hug your neck for saying that. I absolutely believe we all do, and Mitzi knows this. I'll, I'll do my like, like little gentle moment, right? I do have one occasionally. When I came back to work, I had a full scale panic attack. I took two years off and I called Mitzi and I went, oh my God, do I have any value at all?
KIM: I mean, what happened? Anybody, do I even know if I know anybody anymore? I'm not sure what to do. Like. Mitzi, have I lost my mind? I literally called her like in a full scale panic and went, what if I just got lucky? Seriously. Not kidding.
MITZI: So we got two yeses would do again too.
RAZA: I Oh, oh yeah. I love, I love the journey.
RAZA: Can't imagine.
PAWLA: Absolutely. I would definitely do it again, [00:58:00] back to both of your points that I would do a lot of things differently. Uh, I've learned a lot over the years. I've grown a lot. Um, and definitely trusting that gut is one important lesson and knowing your worth and knowing your value. And I, I used to be this leader who every time I met a consultant, I'm like, oh my God, we have to hire them.
PAWLA: We have to bring them on. And then you're like, what the hell did I just do? Like I'm doing the work instead of you. No, thank you. So, and it happened several times, so. I had this moment where I'm like, okay, Pawla, you need to wake up and really trust yourself again. What happened to you? Um, so that is definitely something that I have learned.
PAWLA: Now, would I do it today the same way? I would not, I would not. I grateful, you know, I, the, the industry has changed. It's continuing to change. [00:59:00] And, uh, there there's a lot that's happening. So, would I start, uh, a technology services business today in the GovCon space? I wouldn't, you know, if I have maybe a disruptive product or platform with the financial backing, then yeah, I, I would maybe consider that.
PAWLA: But would I do the same thing today? I wouldn't, I think the environment has changed a lot. Um, if I were to go back, I would probably not start from scratch. I would either, I would probably buy. Uh, a small business. I mean, there are different ways to manage these. Exactly. Totally would do that instead of starting from scratch.
PAWLA: And, um, what I would say is starting a business is a very personal decision, and it's all about like, where you are in the stage of your life. You can be single, you can have little kids, um, you can have different [01:00:00] obligations. And it's really a personal decision of what you are willing to give up and sacrifice because it's a lot of sacrifices.
PAWLA: Uh, and again, it's, it's a 24 by seven commitment. Commitment to your business, to your people, to your clients. So, uh, definitely consider that. I shared this with you when we talked on the phone, Rory Schultz, um, that his soul, um. He was the chair, the government chair for Voyagers 2011, and I was shadowing him one day as part of the Voyagers program.
PAWLA: He was at USDA at the time, and as I was walking out of his office at the end of the day, he looked at me and he said, Pawla, are you sure you want to start your own business one day? And I remember looking back, as I was walking out, I'm looking back at him and I said, hell yes. It was a resounding yes [01:01:00] today.
PAWLA: I understand what he meant today. I understand that. Look in his eyes of what he meant when he asked me that question. I thought, I knew I knew this much. It's a very different way of looking at that question.
RAZA: It doesn't register at that point in time when somebody asks you. Yeah. And it's, and that, that ignorance is actually a good thing.
RAZA: Otherwise if you, the gravity
KIM: best examples for it, for those of us who have forgive you given birth, right? Like, just, just really hope something makes you forget things that each thing, because you keep going. I have three kids by the third. I got smart
KIM: every day, every day. And, and I think there's this misnomer that you have to build something, you exit or you have to build something that's big. You could be really happy building a lifestyle company and, and I think [01:02:00] there's like this, this, oh no, maybe you just want build a B.I. person company. You just wanna be,
RAZA: yeah.
RAZA: I think what should really consider that, you know, there's, there's definitely, which
JANIS: goes back to your why, your, your why. You know, might be aligned more with, I I want to never grow larger than 25 employees. I mean, that's a, that's a personal decision. And, and it also, I just want to add, it goes to not comparing yourself to anybody.
JANIS: Like a lot of these things are like, as much life lessons or as they are business lessons. And so it's so easy to go to an event and to meet somebody who's ahead of you and you do sometimes feel like an imposter, but ahead of you in a business cycle or whatever. Or somehow they, you, you feel like they know more than you do.
JANIS: And, and you have to as a human being, not just as a business owner, but step back and say like, wait a minute. Like no. Like that [01:03:00] person can be successful in their own realm and they're like totally trying to do something that I'm not trying to do. And it's not to like, make an excuse for myself or. I'm suffering from cognitive dissonance.
JANIS: It's because I have to, and I've used this word before, reground myself, but I am going to answer like the question really quickly. I wanna give the fourth answer, um, that, uh, is aligned with one word. I heard the word gut from each person, and so we talk about how culture kicks strategies, butt every single time, well, you know, I, I also often refer to intuition and anybody who knows me well knows that, um, you know, I do try to, uh, go to quiet places.
JANIS: I always even say out loud that part of me is introverted. I know we talked about that during the Partners 2023 program, and it's because [01:04:00] I understand that, um, you know, to hear my intuition and to trust my gut. And I, I'll end it by saying that what I would, so I would definitely, uh, start a business again.
JANIS: Uh, what I would do differently, I'm not going to, you know, repeat some of the things that have already been said, but I will, um, bolster some of the things that Kim said about trusting myself on people and on even companies because companies are made up of people. And so I would, when meeting, whether it be with a consultant or whether it be with a potential teaming partner, I would trust my instincts a lot more, um, than I did earlier on.
JANIS: And I would give a little bit less. And what I mean by that is that, [01:05:00] you know, a lot of the times, because of that imposter syndrome. You know, early on, you know, I've got these two kids, I'm hustling, you know, I'm working multiple accounts, you know, I'm trying to, you know, get things done. I would be like, well, you know, I, I, I need to, you know, develop, you know, this relationship and, but I would put a lot of deposits into the bank.
JANIS: Yeah. And this could be over a long period of time, of, of what I'm saying right now is sometimes I waited too long. I'm like, gosh, you know, it's been three years and you know, this person or company or whatever. They only call me when they need something. Um, you know, and sure, maybe, you know, and I don't need it to be quid pro quo.
JANIS: I don't need it to be where like, you know, Ray calls me, uh, you know, uh, and, and he asks for something and I expect something back. You know, I, I'm willing to wait years, you know, especially if I've developed a relationship with you. Or maybe nothing will ever [01:06:00] come to fruition, but. You have to know when to walk away.
JANIS: And, and that also, you know, applies to partners or, or people who are not working with the same values that you are. And that's a whole nother conversation that we're not gonna go into. But like, if I'm in a meeting with somebody where I feel like their delivery values are different than mine, you know, they're just like, well, let's win this and talk about it later.
JANIS: I'm like, no, I need to walk away from that. And I, I might have let that conversation go on further, earlier on. So just trust the gut.
MITZI: Mm-hmm. And we're gonna wrap 'cause we're a little bit, we're running a little bit over. But, um, thank you everybody. We really appreciate. If you have any que we can take a quick question.
AUDIENCE: Positive news. Well, well, it was, she's not,
MITZI: we, everybody said they would start it. They would do it again. 1, 2,
KIM: 3, 4.
MITZI: Scared everybody else here.
KIM: I think that's a good thing. [01:07:00] I think that's a thing. I, I, I wish someone had scared me. Not to make me stop, but to make me ask a lot. I think
RAZA: Rory's question is, is important.
RAZA: It's important. Once again, God bless important his soul. But yeah, his question is very important.
MITZI: And what, and, and this is one of the things why we do these fellow speakers here. So if you do have, if you are thinking about starting your own business and you want to talk to one of us, you know, come or you have a business and you've got questions.
MITZI: I was asking Janice questions earlier today. Uh, you know, we really do understand what the others are going through. Um, and fellows have a
AUDIENCE: ton
MITZI: of people. Yeah. All you
AUDIENCE: guys raised your hand and started businesses or thinking of starting businesses. There are tons of them. Yeah. Question. Yeah. Can I just ask a quick, quick question?
AUDIENCE: So I, on a positive note, so I'm just kind of curious at any one of you talked about, but you've also talked about kind of imposter, the ups and downs. But at some point you went, Hey, this is actually gonna work. I'm just kind of curious if anyone say Yeah, I had that point. I'm sorry. Uh,
KIM: [01:08:00] August 4th, actually have a day.
KIM: Um, we started the, I started business in 2004. Um, one of our first large accounts was small business administration. They were so far behind on their bills that we had burned up our line of credit. We were within a week of not being able to make payroll and we were gonna have to shut the business down.
KIM: And I was awarded the Federal Communications Commission contract on August the night of August the fourth. My birthday's August the fifth. We would've had to start filing paperwork to shut down on August the seventh,
MITZI: on August 2nd. So, SBA A,
KIM: we couldn't get SBA a pay. Horrible. And we were so, oh, it's normal.
KIM: It's just simple. I mean, the stories I can tell you about organizations that, you know, whatever, but, and look, times have changed. You know, I, I started in 2004, like things are different in some ways I hope and. Not so much. Yeah. But, uh, you actually never forget that day. And what you don't also, [01:09:00] and this goes back to the banking thing, is, you know, when you're first starting, and, and Pawla, I know that you remember this, right?
KIM: Banks don't, they don't care that you just got your first contract. Like you're probably gonna factor for a while. And nobody talks to you about that. Nobody sits you down and says, let's talk about loan sharking on a $5 million contract. Or having to pass covenants. Or having to pass covenants. Yeah. Or the first time you apply for a home loan and they tell you that you might make money, but because you own the business, you're gonna be going to the bottom of the pile for a while.
KIM: That is true. That, that actually happened to me, happens to everybody. You cannot qualify for a home loan until you have at least 24 months of revenue. And by the way, when you start your business to take a right off. Loss. So every time you take a write off and you show a loss, which is what your accountants are telling you to do, you can't qualify to go buy your house.
KIM: You do not have the credit to
MITZI: buy
KIM: your [01:10:00] house.
MITZI: Yeah. Well, and so that's one of the things, that's why, that's why we want to have this conversation, as you said, as everybody here said, yeah, we would do it again. I think it is, it's about planning for it. Yes. And realizing all these things. Reaching out to people, talking to 'em before you do it.
MITZI: Getting a, getting a relationship with a bank before you need it. There are a lot of things that you can do before you start your business and right after you do to kind of mitigate those and, but it is really, it's a learning journey. Yeah. I learn something new every day. I'm doing something different every day.
RAZA: If I could add, you know, you know, it's not, there's not moments where you feel like that it's all, it's all good now, but the wins. The wins when they come in, you know, the FCC award or 12 people at State Department, you know, I'm sure you. Yeah. And things that you have really worked hard on when it happens, even if it's not gonna change the trajectory of the company, which it does, but that feeling of validation, especially into a bunch of [01:11:00] imposters is, is very, very, is a lot of fun.
RAZA: It's a lot of fun.
MITZI: It is. Well, thank you so much everybody. Thank