The Buzz with ACT-IAC
The Buzz with ACT-IAC
The Future of Customer Experience (CX) in the Public Sector
We get to talk with Lee Becker, Senior VP and Executive Advisor for Public Sector and Healthcare at Medallia, to discuss the evolving role of customer experience (CX) in government. Lee shares his journey from being a Navy corpsman to becoming an advocate for improving government services through technology. He emphasizes the importance of collaboration between government and industry, the challenges of implementing CX, and the significance of initiatives like the Government Service Delivery Improvement Act.
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Intro/Outro Music: See a Brighter Day/Gloria Tells
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound
(Episodes 1-159: Intro/Outro Music: Focal Point/Young Community
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound)
yohanna: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Buzz, the podcast from ACT iac, where government and industry come together to share insights, spark ideas, and tackle some of the most pressing challenges in the public sector. I am Joanna Baez, your host. On this show, I get the chance to sit down with leaders who are shaping the future of technology, policy, and public service.
yohanna: People who understand that collaborating isn't just a buzzword, it's the engine that makes real change possible. Today we're talking with Lee Becker, the senior vp, exec Advisor, public sector and healthcare at Medallia, who has been deeply involved in ACT IX customer experience, community of interest, our COI.
yohanna: Um, we'll explore his journey into this space, the role of CX in government today, and where he sees things headed in the future. How's that Sounds
Lee: great. Thanks
yohanna: for having me. Thanks Lee. Thanks for, uh, making time. Thanks for joining us. Um, so you've had a career right at the crossroads of government and technology and you've been deeply, like I said, like [00:01:00] involved with ACT iac.
yohanna: I love to hear, um. I guess your story, maybe you can start from the beginning.
Lee: Yes. Thank you. So, yeah, I, I first really got drawn to this space because of my time in uniform. Um, I had a chance to, to serve as a navy corpsman, and this is where I, I saw firsthand how government services touches people's lives at critical moments.
Lee: Uh, sometimes with lifesaving impact and sometimes with frustrating barriers. That contrast has struck with me, has, has literally struck a chord with me and has stuck with me. And I'll tell you, when I left the Navy, I realized I wanted to dedicate my career to fixing those barriers and to serve in new ways to help with that.
Lee: And I actually thought that technology, um, was a great way to, to, and has become that bridge, uh, to be able to do that because I've seen that when it's done right, uh. We are able to truly make a difference in people's lives by making sure that every interaction gives time back to mission. [00:02:00] It improves trust and delivers.
Lee: Um, great service with great dignity
yohanna: Serviceman. My dad was in the Marines. He, uh, served Vietnam. He learned how to drive like his time there. Um, what else is he, he talks about being in a submarine for like six months for, for whatever reason. Like, what are you doing there? Dad i's like, I don't know. They were moving us around.
Lee: It's amazing. Love our Marines. I mean, this is, um, it's interesting, most of my time with the Navy, uh, was, was actually spending time with the Marines. Uh, so the Navy Corpsmen is, as you know, uh, is responsible for, uh, the medical side on the Navy and also on the Marine Corps side. So it was a tremendous honor.
Lee: Uh, to do that. Thank you for your dad's service. Um, so yeah, as, as you know, they, we, the marines, we, um, actually they're known as Devil Dogs and for Navy corpsmen, uh, we're, we're, I guess they're, they call us Devil Ducks.
yohanna: Devil Duck. Oh, no, come on.
Lee: Yeah, no, it's a good, it's a, it's a, it's a tremendous honor for us, [00:03:00] you know, in the military space to have that, um.
Lee: Uh, because we, you know, we go with the Marines, we are expected to, to, uh, which I think also is ties very nicely when I think about, uh, the work around customer experience where you have to know. The people that you are serving. And so for as a Navy corpsman, you are actually embedded within the Marines and you are expected to understand and, um, follow the traditions, um, et cetera.
Lee: And so that you, and that allows you to also be able to provide better service, uh, because there's the trust that's been built, um, as a result. Yeah.
yohanna: Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. So let's talk about ACT iac. When was the first time that you like interacted with ACT iac? How, why? Uh, why us?
Lee: Yeah, so ACT iac uh, during, I, I had a chance to, uh, get to know ACT IAC when I spent time, uh, at Bureau of Medicine Surgery and then at the Pentagon when we were looking to figure [00:04:00] out new ways and how do we, uh, improve the casualty care process for our returning, uh, wounded warriors and technology.
Lee: There's a critical aspect to it. In act, act as we know, this is a tremendous bridge of bringing industry and government together to help figure out, um, on the technology side of things. And then I got to, this was going on about 20 years ago, and then I got to, uh, know, act, I act during my time at VA, where, uh, throughout, throughout the journey of, uh, improving the claims backlog.
Lee: With, um, improving the appeals, the whole appeals modernization process, that was a lot of technology, was a critical piece there. Uh, and then of course healthcare access, access to healthcare, and then the work around, uh, improving the veterans experience. So I. At the time, uh, that was the term customer experience was not a very, uh, it, it was not a term that was, uh, [00:05:00] that was, uh, understood well across government.
Lee: I mean, we saw examples here and there, but at the va, you know, there, there was this notion. It wasn't, you know, widely accepted at the time. Um, but the crisis that happened that the VA was kind of forced to, to consider that is when, when it started. Now it's one thing to say, okay, we wanna focus on customer experience, we wanna do this, but how do we actually, uh, you know, address from a policy perspective, from a, you know, process improvement perspective from, you know, you know, data standpoint.
Lee: Uh, acti was a great partner. For me while I was at, while I was at va because it created a, a safe place to have a conversation between industry and government to talk about, um, really focus on solutions, right? Focus on the right solutions that will move the mission forward. And that was, that was so successful and is, and we've seen the progress that's been made as a result.
Lee: And, uh, for [00:06:00] instance. You know, with the A 11 section, two 80, um, as we know with the, uh, updates around customer experience with the cross agency Priority Goals Act, IAC was part of that, um, through multiple administrations, um, and ensuring that CX is pulled through, uh, across administrations from a, in a bipartisan way.
Lee: Uh, act I was a critical piece. And then coming in industry, uh, it's been, this is one of the reasons why I, I, I thought it was so critical for, uh, me personally to be involved, but also be an advocate for others to be involved because of the, the consistent, the consistent, uh, experience that I've had with, uh, really making a tangible difference.
Lee: Uh, for our government to provide better services to American people.
yohanna: Let's go into that a little bit. You've taken on a leadership kind of role inside Acti Act through our communities of interest. Let, let's talk about what it looks like maybe behind the scenes. What [00:07:00] does a typical month look like in your COI leadership role?
yohanna: I don't know. Do you have any secrets?
Lee: Well, it's, it's incredible. It, it's, it's incredibly rewarding, uh, what I've shared with, and I think it's with any. Uh, any type of anything that's important, uh, that you think is important or that you want to get, and of course you expect value from it. It really is.
Lee: It's a matter of how much you put into it and how much you put into it is that that's what you get out of it. Right. And you don't, and it's not coming out from a perspective of necessarily, uh, you know, doing something because you're trying to get something out of it. But when you have this perspective of.
Lee: You, you're, you're trying to provide value, you wanna make a difference. Uh, ACT IAC of course, provides that platform to be able to do that, and, and that is incredibly rewarding. You know, when, when I think about my, uh, typical week, month with ACT iac, I think it's, you know, when I, I think [00:08:00] best it's a mix of strategy, uh, and service.
Lee: Uh, some weeks. It's planning, uh, content for the next CX Summit. Right. You know, it could be like, right now we're, we're in the process of our creating our annual plan for our cx COI. Uh, and we're, we're, we just had an onsite, actually at the ACT iac, uh, headquarters, where we, our leadership team came together.
Lee: Uh, that, by the way, an incredible group of leaders that care so much, uh, both, you know, government and industry, right? It's a joint. So that's how we operate. It's, it's a. It's all done in a joint way. And, uh, and now it's, that's, you know, so rewarding because you're working with such great, great folks, great people.
Lee: Uh, but I think at its core, it's building a safe environment where, you know, leaders can have candid conversations and it's, and of course we know that's important right now, um, but not just having conversations and not just, you know, thinking about strategy, but really talking about how do you get to [00:09:00] action and really talking about how do you move, move that.
Lee: What I love about it, it's always from the perspective of how do we help the government operate better? Right? How do we help?
yohanna: Yeah.
Lee: Um, not just from a technology perspective, like of course technology is critical, but also thinking about it from the employee perspective. 'cause the reality is the way the mission gets done in government, in any organization, it is about the people.
Lee: Right. Full stop. And so all the buzz of technology, right? The how do we make sure that the people's front center, and that's another piece of where, of where, you know, I, I see I have found such value in ACT iac, where we're able to, uh, emphasize those, um, you know, what's most important, and then be able to help, you know, help achieve those desired results as, as.
Lee: Uh, because we're focused on the right things.
yohanna: Are you, are you [00:10:00] comfortable with talking about a specific project and maybe giving details about like a project?
Lee: Yeah. You know, I mean, we could talk about, uh, there, there's a lot. Um, and I think this is what, why we enjoy what we do. I think one, which is very relevant to right now, that's been been going on, there's been a lot of conversation around, you know, uh, around customer experience, but really from the standpoint of.
Lee: You know, from service delivery. From a service delivery perspective, and then also the, the focus around ai, right? That has come into play and our community has had a lot of questions. How does this all fit together? Right? Does this mean CX goes away and it's a focus on service delivery? Does it mean service delivery goes away and AI is the focus?
Lee: And what I, what I love about what we've done as a team is we've br we've actually connected the dots. Of how it's all interrelated. And that to me, I think is a critical element of when I think of a COI of, of not only the value of those that, that I encouraged to be involved in, but the [00:11:00] value of what, what the type of, the type of service that could provide to the community in the in is from a.
Lee: So in that example, what we've been able to do is we said, you know what we should. Really go in more depth around what's the relationship between cx, service delivery and ai. And we did, uh, a incredible session that, uh, pulled in some best practices from, uh, the private sector because I think that's also important.
Lee: As you look at this administration, they're looking at that. They're looking, okay, what are some examples of an industry that's, that may be doing so, pulled that in, but also pulled in best practices that we're seeing across. Agencies, like what the VA is doing, what, you know, IRS is doing, um, you know, social security administration, et cetera.
Lee: There's some great examples that are there. Uh, and then connecting the dots on, on what this means from, uh, how, how should agencies be approaching ai? So this idea would be, is. It's really [00:12:00] critical that agencies do not just apply AI for the sake of applying ai. If they have a process that that may not necessarily be CX friendly and really delivered as the desired results, if you apply AI to it, it will actually hurt.
Lee: It will, it will hurt the, it won't, you won't have the desired outcomes. Actually, you'll have an outcome that is, is faster and uh, and more of it that doesn't really work. And so this notion of like making sure that. We're, we're, we're customer focused in how we approach it and how we design applying technology the right way, applying the AI the right way to then, uh, enable it the right way.
Lee: Make sure the people aspect, how does that, how do we make sure human the loop, um, is critical there? And then also applying CX. Methodology around listening and understanding in a continuous way, um, how this, how the technology, how this new process and new system is actually working. And if it's not working, let's stop it or let's pivot.
Lee: If it is working, let's do more of it. [00:13:00] Right. And that's, that, that is the, the type of work that, um, the COI continues to do. Uh, I mean another, uh, another example is, you know, we just had the A 11 section, two 80 just got released, the new update. Um, we've got the executive order on new US Chief Design Officer that's in place right now.
Lee: And how does that fit in? And so we're, we're actually having a, a session on September 10th. We're gonna be talking more about that and connecting the dots, having Matt Lira join us. I know we're in discussion of, uh, Amir Boland may join as well. So there is that ability to, to be able to provide perspective.
Lee: To our community is something that is, I think, foundational and it's gonna be a critical piece as we get into this next phase of this administration,
yohanna: I like how you understand what success kind of should look like. Like, you know, that it's, it, it should look like the government [00:14:00] understanding, you know, people, workers, labor.
yohanna: It's not just metrics, but it's like. Reverse, you know, the reverse part of that. Like what does it look like the other way? What's the impact? Uh, the, the way. So I, I like that you're very clear about that and you explain it very well. 'cause I understand it. I'm just a regular old person and I get like, oh, I, I get what he's talking about.
yohanna: Um, I also wanna understand how do you keep that momentum going, like across transitions and between administrations and mandates and, 'cause you're, you're. You have it just off the top of your head, just like this new mandate and this new executive order and the numbers and the, the section and the, you know, like how do you, how do you do that?
yohanna: How do you, um, just understand it and I don't know, keep it all in your head.
Lee: Well, um, you know, thank you. Well, I think it's, it, it has to be part of our DNA. Um, and you know, I think it's also, I'm very lucky to be working at a company that, uh, where this is. You know, this is part of how we think about it every single day as well.
Lee: And there's, [00:15:00] so I think the key is alignment, right? Uh, because this also, this work is not, it's, it's not for the faint of heart because we're talking about transformation. We're talking about, you know, changing culture, right? And so this, this, I think, needs to be part of, part of it. And, and, and thankfully there's an incredible community, right?
Lee: Of, and this is where I also get a lot of inspiration from so many across within government and an industry. Are, you know, doing this, this work. And we all, we all, um, uh, are work, are working closely together. Uh, but I, I definitely see the alignment. It's a very clear alignment between my, the volunteer work that I do, uh, with AK and others, and also my day job and also I have to say my family.
Lee: Um, so blessed to have an incredible partner who is so supportive, uh, on this. And she's okay with, with, um. Me doing this. But also it means that's, it's, there's a sacrifice in the sense of, you know, I may not, um, you know, there, there's things that. I may not [00:16:00] be doing right as a result. Right. Uh, it, so my, you know, my Saturdays and Sundays, of course with the family, of course you bring, that's, that's a key focus around it.
Lee: But I may not go golfing as much, and that's okay. I'm okay with that. Uh, although I do like golfing, I'm okay with that. But I think that's a part of the balance that there is. But thankfully there is, there's such alignment though between my work, my full-time work, volunteer. And it all, it, it all intersects and all connects.
Lee: And, and also I think in this work it's important to also enjoy not only be a systems thinker, I think systems thinker is important, but also enjoy solving problems. So you're, you're, you're like that and you don't get scared of it. Um, and you are, you're also, I think as part of this, I think you, there has to be a sense of optimism that needs to.
Lee: Take place because it's, it's very easy to, like, as things progress to, you know, um, lose faith. Right. And how do you, how do you stay grounded in that? And I think [00:17:00] that's,
yohanna: yeah.
Lee: Another piece, I, for me personally, my faith and is a critical element as well in, in being able to ground the ground in it. Because I'll tell you, there's some days it's.
Lee: It could be tough, right? So this is where we, we kind of, um, you know, uh, connect the dots. And I would say finally is I think it's okay to think of this as a journey. This is not, it's not episodic, okay? This, this can't be a a one and done. This is a journey, right? And a journey is we have, um, an opportunity.
Lee: To, to really help improve the lives of, of, of everyday Americans. And, and that's something that is, is a privilege and this is what this, what this, um, community is, is helping and is part of. And that to me is a, it's, it, it transcends a job, right? It's, it's a, a purpose and which is, uh, I think is [00:18:00] something that Right.
Lee: Continues to drive me. And others that are in this, uh, that I've worked with.
yohanna: I'm so happy. You're, you're really smart. I'm so happy. Like, you know, you know what's going on. I'm so happy that like you're, yeah. Like you're up on like all the executive orders and all these things. I really, I, I like to kind of talk about the Government Service Delivery Improvement Act.
yohanna: I know that that's a really big shift. Um, what is something that excites you most about it and what. What might be a challenge that you see, you know, for the agency and, and other CX leaders?
Lee: Yeah, so this is, it is a, uh, it is an historic law because it really, um, it, it puts front and center the importance of it, of why service delivery matters, why improving the experience matters, um, to ensure efficient, effective service delivery.
Lee: And, uh, we also. I recently saw, as we we've talked about, is the section two 80, uh, a 11, where it provides some more, uh, clarity around it in the, in the fact that [00:19:00] it actually talks about how it's gonna be implemented. So it, it talks about having, uh, how om b needs to have a service delivery lead. It talks about how agencies.
Lee: Need to identify that. It talks about the importance of, of measurement, of customer feedback, uh, particularly around services. And, and to me this, the most exciting is the, the element of accountability. Where it provides clarity in that, more clarity in that, uh, and how this is, you know, customer experience and, you know, improving service delivery is on par with financial and operational measures.
Lee: And it's, and that's pretty historic. You know, the challenge has, the challenge is operationalizing it. I mean, that's the challenge. Uh, making sure that agencies have the right governance, the data, and of course the talent to, to be able to deliver it. Uh, but I have faith. The fact that, you know, I see agencies like the va, where the VA has done such a [00:20:00] great job, and of course there's always room for improvement, but let's, let's, you know, let's give 'em their flowers in the sense that they have put in place an incredible office, the Veterans Experience Office that is not just an office, it's actually, they have been able to integrate it within all different parts of va.
Lee: They're working across the va, whether it's healthcare benefits, um, you name it, they, they're across the board. They have been able to drive so much value and so much return on investment and showing how they've been able to reduce cost to serve. They were able to, uh, improve a certain level of service that they're providing.
Lee: Uh, there was even on, even on par with healthcare, uh, at the national level where the VA has five to six times more five star facilities than the national average. Which is incredible. And this is CMS, the results of CMS just came out on that. So that to me is just again, another example on it. And [00:21:00] so what did, what did, what did, uh, Congress do and what did the president just do?
Lee: Is they saw the law was signed just, just a couple weeks ago to codify and really, you know, formalize the, the Veterans Experience Act of 2025. To formalize this office and this capability, and that to me is an opportunity for other agencies to look at and to be able to then say, Hmm, that's, that's how it should be done.
Lee: And we're seeing examples. IRS has started the, the journey. SSA Social Security Administration. I think, um, you know, we have Dustin Brown, Paul Funk, the, the leaders there that are, have been driving this. I mean, Dustin, as you know, was at OMB. And he was a big proponent of CX in the early days, uh, back when we were doing the cross-agency prior article, um, under the first Trump administration, and now he's a Social Security administration doing great credible things.
Lee: Uh, we're seeing you, you know, examples at hud, you know, [00:22:00] where you've got the CFO, Irv Dennis talking about the importance of CX and importance of improving service delivery. So the examples are there. And so what I would say for agencies as they're looking for, like, how do you do this? You know, there's these examples that can, that can help you.
Lee: Uh, I, I was, another one to share is customs border protection, you know, CVP, I mean CVP. They have, uh, their, the program that they've created is called the CVP experience. And, um, James and Janet there, and the, and the team, um, Alex, they're doing. Incredible work and moving the needle on, on experience from a CVP perspective.
Lee: Right? And how, how do you improve experience for global entry? How do you improve experience for trade? How do you improve it for, you know, the, uh, CP employees? How do we make sure, and they talk a lot about time back to mission. That's what they talk about. And um, so there, there's, those are great stories.
Lee: Uh, what Right. Looks like. And I think to me is when you see these [00:23:00] laws, it's a validation, right? And it hopefully gives the top cover needed. To be able to drive those initiatives for initiatives forward.
yohanna: So fast forward, moving our missions forward. Let's fast forward. What's one bold idea that could transform, you know, federal CX in the next decade?
yohanna: You've mentioned that like across the board from the IRS to hud, everyone is, you know, is, is really kind of stepping their game up. What's something else that you see in the next 10 years that can just further, further the mission?
Lee: Yes, so. This is something, uh, many of us have ideated on and, and thought through.
Lee: There is this notion of what if there was a single, integrated, uh, citizen account, so as a citizen, you'd have this single integrated account. It's a secure, of course, personalized portal where every single American can see their benefits, their obligations and [00:24:00] services that they can get all in one place.
Lee: Um, one can only dream, but there's no reason why that can't, that can't happen. I think we've got the pieces, you know, there's been talk around life journeys and how do we make sure we're aligning life journeys, because a life journey means multiple agencies are involved. So how do you connect the dots in that way?
Lee: Uh, there's been talk, you know, we, we know usa.gov is out there that has, you know, maybe, maybe there's an opportunity we could revive. Uh, and, and really provide the, um, you know, blow some wind in the sails there and to help help with that. Uh, you know, there has been, of course, as we know, lots of conversations about logon.gov.
Lee: You know, one way how we can, how, how any, every American has a one a way to, to access into the no matter which agency access the services that they need. That way. Uh, we've got examples at VA where VA has done it from a a one number, VA 4 1 1. They were [00:25:00] able to go from 1800 numbers to one phone number.
Lee: They were able to go from a thousand websites to one website. So there is examples of this Wow. Of this in place. So I don't think it's so far fetched, although. You know, we know that is a, that is, that would be a bold, bold move. And frankly, I think every, you know, every American would, would welcome that.
Lee: Uh, just 'cause it's, hey, that's what we have in our personal life. You know, if we wanna, you know, whether it's shopping, whether it's, whatever it is, we want to be able to access those services. Uh, seamlessly. It,
yohanna: it feels efficient too to go to one place for everything, you know, instead of all these different places for
Lee: Exactly.
Lee: It absolutely does. And it feels like, you know, gov we want a government to be proactive and frankly to be, be responsive when we need it. Uh, we don't wanna be chasing paperwork. We citizens should get served at the right time. Um, they should not have to have to go around in circles. Uh, and I think for employees, I think it, it's, it's really empowering, right?
Lee: 'cause it's less time on red tape, [00:26:00] it's more time back to mission. And I think for the public, it just, it, it feels like the government finally works as one.
yohanna: Okay, cool. All right, so all this talk about the future, uh, I'd like to wrap it up. I want to, this, this might be a, a weird question, but if you had one minute with the next wave of public service innovators, what would you tell them to carry forward?
yohanna: What, what should they leave behind? What should they carry forward?
Lee: It's a great question. Uh, this is, I I've been very blessed to have great mentors and those that. That have helped me, uh, in, in my career. And if I had a moment, I would say, you know, stay rooted in purpose. You know, don't let, uh, don't let bureaucracy dim your fire.
Lee: Remember, behind every single policy, every system is a human being depending on you, and carry forward the value of listening deeply. When in doubt, just [00:27:00] put, put your customer. At the center of it and then, and then work yourself backwards and carry forward the value of really listening with deep empathy.
Lee: Listening to understand and leave behind the mindset of we've always done it that way.
yohanna: That's a good one. I like that. That's my favorite. 'cause you gets stuck in a circle. Oh, we've always done it this way. I know, but what about the future? What about the future? We have a future to think about.
Lee: Exactly.
Lee: That's exactly right. And it's, it's easy to get stuck in that. 'cause I think also, as you know, in government, uh, there is, there isn't incentives to necessarily really lean forward. It's more, and if you think about how the government is designed, right? As we know, the government's designed to execute on the will of the people, right?
Lee: So congress rates laws, then the right executive branch is executing that. And so by design, it's meant to design Now. What we know is yes, we want to make sure there's, [00:28:00] there's consistency and make sure how we, how the government's brand services is done fairly, you know, equ, et cetera. That being said, we doesn't mean that we can't innovate and doesn't mean that we, we cannot evolve, and that's the critical piece, but it's not built into incentives and incentive structure right now.
Lee: And I think that's something that I think as leaders, uh, and this is a, this is a critical piece, is that we need leaders that are willing to. Uh, you know, be courageous, right? Be willing to lean forward and, and take those risks. Uh, but we also, we need leaders to make sure that there's the top cover for that environment because you need to have the right environment to, uh, to be able to do that.
Lee: And that's, I know, a concern. You know, right now, I mean, just frankly, is that we know there's challenges right now in, in the federal workforce there in the sense that there's trauma. There's real trauma where employees are, are concerned about stepping out of out of line, [00:29:00] perceived to be stepping outta line.
Lee: And so leaders. Are gonna have to cr to rebuild, trust and rebuild a cul, a culture that allows for innovation. It allows for learning. It actually rewards that type of behavior of, uh, of that. Otherwise, it'll be very difficult to. To do what I just said.
yohanna: That's good. Yeah. I think you're one of those leaders.
yohanna: Yeah, you are. You are. Look at you. Yeah, you are.
Lee: Well, thank you. I, I try. It's, it's hard. I'll tell you. It's, it's, no, I mean this, it's a constant work. I mean, it takes, it takes a lot of, it's a constant work on it and you know, it's a, and I, I think you gotta also be willing to roll up your sleeves as well, like being willing to be okay with that and enjoy it.
Lee: Uh, but it's, it's, it's a constant. It's, I think it's a constant journey. And one of the, uh, there's a book. That I really, I highly recommend. Um, it's called Growth Mindset.
yohanna: Oh, growth Mindset. Okay. Yeah.
Lee: So Carol Dweck, [00:30:00] growth Mindset. Mm-hmm. Um, it's a great book. And I read this book in grad school, but yeah, so Carol Dweck talks about the growth mindset, which, which gets to it.
Lee: It's right. It's a constant learning, constant growing. You gotta be okay with that.
yohanna: Okay.
Lee: Um, 'cause, because otherwise we get stale. We get stale and it doesn't.
yohanna: Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.
Lee: We can't then, you know, help evolve things. So
yohanna: thank you so much for your time. Well, I
Lee: appreciate, thank you so much for doing this.
Lee: Thanks for putting a spotlight on the CX COI and the work that, that we're doing, uh, there. And, um, you know, the CX Summit, by the way, it's coming up, um, you know, November. So we're definitely, you know, very excited about that. I know we're, I think Friday, we're starting our first, this tomorrow is our first, uh, planning session for that.
Lee: So, of course, you know, Medallia is sponsoring, which we're very excited about doing that again this year. And yeah, Carol and and Martha are working hard on that, so it's, it's good. It's a good, it's a good thing. And I'll be, I, I'm supposed to be at ELC, so I'm planning, I'm planning on it. Hopefully I'll see you there.
Lee: Okay.
yohanna: All right. I hope so. Um. I don't [00:31:00] have a costume. It's like been everyone's go-to like, what are you wearing? I'm like, what do you mean? Like I'm running around helping set up stuff and take things down and jeans and, no, no, no. Like what's your costume? Like what? I appreciate you.
Lee: Thank you. I appreciate you.
Lee: Thank you. Yeah,
yohanna: thank you so much.
Lee: Alright, thank you. Bye.
yohanna: Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Buzz. Stay tuned for more conversations and insights in future episodes. Until next time, stay curious and connected.