The Buzz with ACT-IAC
The Buzz with ACT-IAC
Collaboration at the Core: Inside ACT-IAC's Cyber COI
We get to talk to Ken Adams, the Chief Strategy Officer at Foxhole Technology and the long-serving Industry Chair of the ACT-IAC Cyber COI. Ken shares his career journey, insights into the collaborative dynamics within the gov tech community, and the importance of continuity and professional relationships. Ken highlights the significance of volunteer work, the impact of ACT-IAC projects like 'Zero Trust' and 'ATO as Code,' and the balance between day jobs and volunteer commitments. The conversation also touches on the non-sales ethos of these engagements and the value of maintaining a collaborative and supportive environment among industry and government participants.
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Intro/Outro Music: See a Brighter Day/Gloria Tells
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound
(Episodes 1-159: Intro/Outro Music: Focal Point/Young Community
Courtesy of Epidemic Sound)
Yohanna: [00:00:00] Hey Buzz listeners. Welcome to this episode where we get to talk with Ken Adams. He's the Chief Strategy Officer at Foxhole Technology and a long serving industry chair of Act, IACS Cyber COI. Ken shares his incredible career journey, offers insights. Into the collaborative dynamics within the cybersecurity community.
Yohanna: Enjoy this fun episode.
Yohanna: Away we go. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Buzz. This is Joanna Baez, and uh, I'm here with Ken Adams. Good
Ken Adams: morning.
Yohanna: Good morning, Ken. How are you feeling?
Ken Adams: I'm doing well, thank you. How about you?
Yohanna: You have uh, I'm doing good. Yeah. You have a great reputation. Everyone. Everyone's like, oh, okay.
Yohanna: You get to interview. Can, can. No, that'll be great. You're gonna have fun. That's Oh, pressure. I, I hope I don't let them down. I know, right? Um, so I'd like to just start from the beginning. Please let folks know who you are, where you're from, maybe a little bit of, you know, your, your career journey.
Ken Adams: Sure. Just in brief, uh, Ken Adams.
Ken Adams: I'm the [00:01:00] day job. I'm the Chief Strategy Officer for Foxhole Technology. We're a mid-tier government focused, uh, cybersecurity focused contractor. Uh, in this capacity for this purpose, I'm the ACT iac, long serving, uh, industry chair of the cyber community of interest. And then, uh, career journey. I lived in the area about 20 years now.
Ken Adams: I'm from Arlington, Virginia. Um, that's a debate with my wife. She says you're from is where you grew up. So I grew up in New Jersey, I guess spent a lot of time in the Midwest. I live maybe that's a better way. Live in Arlington. Um, started off in the big four. Um. I, I spent time at Bearing Point, Deloitte founded KPMG's Federal Cyber Advisory practice, and then, um.
Ken Adams: Did some time in healthcare, and then I joined Foxhole about two years ago.
Yohanna: Oh, that's great. Jersey boy,
Ken Adams: Bergen County. 20 minutes outside of New York. Rutherford, New Jersey.
Yohanna: Nice. Yeah, Jersey guy. So that's, that's interesting. [00:02:00] I, I also wanted to know like what drew you to act IAC when you think about your career?
Yohanna: Um, a lot of folks that I've been interviewing, they'll say like, well act, I has kind of always been around like someone. Someone at this other company mentioned them and I didn't know what they were talking about, or I went to an event and I didn't know it was their event. Um, so what was your first, I guess, interaction with, with ACT iac?
Ken Adams: I was thinking about that before, uh, our conversation started and, um, for years I supported, uh, the food nutrition service at under USDA and at the time, uh, Jonathan Al. Jonathan Bennett, Donald Star and Doby, Brad Nicks, uh, Rory Schultz were folks from that group in particular. They seemed to have a disproportionate number of F folks from FFS that were involved in ACT iac and they were always singing act Iacs praises.
Ken Adams: Um, and I didn't know, it was kind of hard to tell, right? 'cause I didn't have other perspectives. Is this really true? Or, you know, is this just [00:03:00] kind of looking at it only through their filter and so on. So I said I should, I should check this out for myself and, and, you know, come to my own conclusion. So, but I, I give those guys in particular a lot of, uh, credit for, uh.
Ken Adams: Making me aware in the first place and encouraged me to get, uh, involved to start.
Yohanna: So this was when you were where, like where were you in your career when you started with ACT
Ken Adams: iac? Well, see, I've been the, uh, industry chair for about nine years now. Uh, so give or take a little over 10 years ago maybe when I first started to get my feet wet.
Yohanna: Yeah. So you've carried your act iac like involvement across multiple organizations and stuff? Um. What, what do you think helps you be committed to the cyber COI, regardless of like your title or, or your employer? I think
Ken Adams: continuity is really important. Um, you know, being able to, I mean, that's a conversation that I've had multiple employers in a row now ahead of time, is that that is a deal breaker.
Ken Adams: You know, that's a prerequisite, uh, [00:04:00] expectation that I set with them that I'll continue to stay involved with the membership. Because obviously the members have to pay in order for me to be involved. So I'll do credit to foxhole, in this case for, for paying and enabling me to do this. Uh, uh, but, but obviously there's value to them too, right?
Ken Adams: To get their name out there, to have access and exposure to these, to, you know, you and I were talking about before, not just feds anymore, the gies and on these decision makers, uh, but also collaborate, collaborating with other members of the industry. Too, that, that, uh, so I think I've gotten the voice track down pretty well, pretty effectively to help my employers see, see the benefit themselves, not just about.
Ken Adams: And, and then the other point I make in these cases is when you're a corporate member of ACT iac, it's not just me who is the member, everybody in the organization as a member. So I encourage them to come as well, because the more of us who get involved, the more benefit there is to, to my employer, which whatever the employer might.
Yohanna: Yeah. So you feel supported. [00:05:00] Everyone at Foxhole, you know, feel sup supported. Can you, I I, this is a weird segue, but I really wanna know what, what your role as a volunteer kind of looks like, and maybe you can speak to that balance where, you know, you, you work at Foxhole and then some of the volunteer work that you do with us.
Yohanna: Can you speak to some of, um, I guess your role as a, as a, the industry cyber COI
Ken Adams: industry chair? Yeah. The. It depends on the day, right? Sometimes I'm a cheerleader and sometimes I'm a recruiter, and, um, sometimes I'm a cat herder. So it really depends on what the challenge is at, at the time. Um, uh, earlier on, uh, I mean I started off as the vice chair, or my first really got involved and, uh, the chair left.
Ken Adams: They said, oh, you know, you, oh, you're the chair now, uh, without any kind of transition or lead in. I said, I have no idea what I'm doing. Um, but then folks who were still involved with the COI, [00:06:00] with me, uh, we said, we'll figure it out just like we do any other professional problem and so on. So early days, it was just trying to figure out what's the cadence?
Ken Adams: How often do we want to meet, what do we wanna be known for? Um, somewhere along the line. Uh, ACT IAC recommended that we bring in federal advisory panels, which we've kind of rebranded as the board. Uh, at the time, we sort of, we thought that was a bit of a, a great, another obligation on another responsibility.
Ken Adams: Well, no, let's use that as a positive. So rather than speculating, what is, what do the Govey see are as challenges? Let's ask them so that I think it's, it, it time and circumstances looking to what is, how do we continue to say we, that's something you and I were talking about earlier, how do we continue to stay relevant right in, in light of
Yohanna: Yeah.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: Uh, we had projects that were probably, we're dealing with volunteers, so we have to be very, we're very mindful of. Is this appealing to this audience? Is this [00:07:00] relevant at this time and circumstance? But how do you keep volunteers engaged? 'cause they have day jobs too, right? Not just day jobs, but they have to get dinner on the table and get kids to soccer practice and what have you.
Ken Adams: So if we're asking enough time that it has to be relevant. And then one thing, one evolution we've done is. Uh, more short term projects. We had projects were probably taking 12 to 18 months, which I can't say that's too long. 'cause if that's what the, the project necessitated, then that's what it required, but.
Ken Adams: Chunking things up into phases. We're doing zero trust phase three, now we're initiating Atos code phase two. So it's, it's more manageable, discrete periods of time. And then Justin to bear with the Federal Transit Administration is championing, uh, shorter term projects so the volunteers can see impact and benefit and something to showcase in shorter increments without having to wait for the ultimate.
Ken Adams: Presentation of the, of the white paper, 18 months hence, and not having anything to show forward.
Yohanna: Yeah, [00:08:00] that's really smart. I really like that. That sounds like you guys are really finding a rhythm there.
Ken Adams: We used to do, we used to say we could control, we could manage three projects at a time. I mean, know one early stage one kind of full maturity, and then one was about to sunset.
Ken Adams: Uh, we were getting to the point where we're handling about five, which I think is just a show, a demonstration of maturity on behalf of the organization because we, we didn't wanna sacrifice, uh, quality. Um, more doesn't always necessarily mean better, but I think most would agree that as we made the transition from three to four to five at a time that, that we were continuing to, it's also one of the questions you, you, you, you presented to me ahead of time was.
Ken Adams: The way I talk about, you know, how do you feel like it made a difference when have you contributed to the, to the industry? Right. So I, I checked it out because I had to remember, uh, in May of 2018, um, since May of 2018, so maybe even going back to 2017 when we started talking about it, we usually, in our first [00:09:00] zero trust white paper,
Yohanna: okay.
Ken Adams: So, uh, we've been cited by nist. I remember back in the day where Dr. Darren death and Steven Hernandez were, were appearing on, uh, you know, print media. Uh, they were on, uh, on TV talking about this. Um. I don't think we recognized at the time what we were doing, but we, you know, I, I think the group on the whole, that effort and those folks who really championed that project in particular deserved credit for what we now know as zero trust being kind of omnipresent.
Ken Adams: And I, I don't mean the hype, I don't mean the buzzword kind of stuff. I'm talking about like truly substantive difference making. Um, it's not every, you know. Not just COI, but a group of our sort that has been cited by nist, that folks are paying attention. And I think we've, Teddy Gates is our zero trust chair continuing to look and poke and prod at that problem in different ways, uh, that, that continue to be relevant today.
Ken Adams: So one of the projects we have ongoing is [00:10:00] zero trust interoperability because it's, it's, it's a big hairy problem. That you can't tackle in one shot. So just trying to poke and prod at that. Evolve as the, as the community, and as the. The, the technology evolves to continue to keep up with that. Uh, but zero trust I think is one where we really felt like we put down a marker, you know, uh, as a group to be paid attention to.
Yohanna: Yeah. You guys were ahead of your time also too. 'cause I think now is when folks are really trying to understand and explain zero trust. And I'm kind of wrapping my head. I'm not like super techie, but like when folks kind of break it down to me, I'm like, oh, okay. That makes sense. Um, right. So that's really good to know that you were.
Yohanna: A trendsetter, you know? Um,
Ken Adams: no, and again, I'll do credit to those folks who champion those projects. Yeah. And so when I think more recently, our a TO is code project with James Saunders, who at the time was the OPM ciso. Now he is the CISO in Maryland. Uh, and, and, and gar of Paul [00:11:00] gp, uh, with Stack Armor. Um, I told him he's, he's, he's said in, he's a.
Ken Adams: He's a CEO and I said, you're really kind of setting a high bar for us naming PMs because now everybody's gonna expect that we have a PM running every project, but. The two of them have, have, uh, and then, and then previously Dan Jacobs, uh, who was with OPM, I need to give, you know, proper credit to the folks who were involved.
Ken Adams: I think a, since the Zero Trust Project, a TO is code is one to me that has, uh, most effectively moved the needle. Um, and then the other thing that you and I were talking before about our communications group with, uh, Wendy Robinson and Ke Jennings Roche, our job as the board and leaders in the organization is to get the word out about our work product.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: Because the, the, every project has a, has a sponsor, and the sponsor is saying, this is a, i I don't have the time or the resources in my day job to get to this.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: So I'm gonna leverage the, the masses or the numbers of cyber minded, cyber [00:12:00] capable volunteers that that act IAC affords me to start to pick away at this problem.
Ken Adams: They set the North Star for the project and then the PMs kind of usher the project along. The sponsor checks in from time to time. How are we doing relative to that North Star? But our job as a, as a leadership group, as a board, is to get the word out. Yeah. How do we, because the goal isn't just to help.
Ken Adams: Yeah, of course. Selfishly, that person wants to help their own cause, but how do they help the community get. Tackle the, the continuous a TO problem more effectively than they did, you know, previously. So trying, fortunately, I'm, I'm really, I appreciate Dave Gram giving us the liberty. To be able to engage with other organizations to get the word out in, in terms of, Jason Miller did a, an interview with Dan and with, with, uh, with GP about the atos code project.
Ken Adams: And then they had an article about that We had, uh, at gov CIO media, we did a data dominance panel about our data [00:13:00] dominance project to get word out to new audiences. And there are benefits to these organizations. We're, right now we're talking with. Uh, Billington about putting together a panel on zero trust interoperability.
Yohanna: Mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: There's benefit to those groups too, because they don't have to recruit anybody. They don't have to come up with a topic. But I also think that there are significant benefits to the continuity and chemistry that exists with that, within that panel. 'cause they're not just coming together and having had one 30 minute prep session earlier in the week.
Ken Adams: Mm-hmm.
Yohanna: Mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: They've got. Existing simpatico and chemistry among the group that have come together and they're either in the process of tackling or they have tackled a project. And here's our shared perspective on that. On that
Yohanna: issue. Yeah. And they continue, they continue to build on that
Ken Adams: ultimately ACT IAC benefits and the, and the volunteers benefit.
Ken Adams: And the sponsors benefit. 'cause it just helps amplify
Yohanna: Sounds like you know how to collaborate very well.
Ken Adams: Well, and I, and I, uh. And I think that the, uh, you know, I can't, I can't speak for the Michael Hoffmans and the Troy Schneiders and so [00:14:00] on these other organizations and so on, but I mm-hmm. I'll let them, I'll let them speak for themselves.
Ken Adams: From my perspective, I think that our reputation, um, has started to, to, uh, it's, it's hopefully fairly well known and, and when we're, uh, you know, not, not everybody knows Act iac, right? Especially, uh, in diff different sectors. They're not as familiar with it and so on. But, um, it definitely, uh, it's so satisfying when folks get involved and they come into it and they say, there's just something different about this group.
Ken Adams: Uh, we're very, very fortunate. The chemistry among the group is fantastic. We just enjoy one another's company. That's our se, that's our stem. I'm, I'm sharing our secret sauce that, um. We had a board meeting, not last month, but the month before, and every single person who was in at, in attendance, uh, we, we meet, we meet monthly.
Ken Adams: I've been pretty stubborn [00:15:00] about, uh, we're not gonna give up. We were the first community of interest to get together in person again after COVID.
Yohanna: Hmm.
Ken Adams: Um, I'm pretty consistent in wanting to make sure that we meet in person whenever possible. Um, I just think you lose something when you're not meeting in person.
Yohanna: Yeah, absolutely. I think so too.
Ken Adams: And then after that board meeting, every single member hung around for a happy hour afterwards. No compulsion, no obligation, no responsibility whatsoever. Just if you choose to, please do. Uh, yeah. And it was so, and I didn't, it didn't occur to me even at the time. It was only upon reflection that I said.
Ken Adams: That was very telling that folks, they saw something valuable for this. I've had, I tell this story all the time. Venus Goodwin was on the board when she was the USDA sso. Okay. She stepped back when she became, she went back to the Air Force and she was the director of enterprise IT for the Air Force. She was still eligible, but you know, whatever.
Ken Adams: She's taken on a new job needs to dig in. Totally understandable. I saw [00:16:00] her at an event. Um, she was sitting on the couch talking to some folks. She saw me and she got up and said, can I want back in? Can I get, and I said, you're still, you're still a Fed, right? She said, yes, absolutely. To this day, I still get excited about that conversation because it, it was, it was, I'm not just, I'm not kidding myself here, that we, we are doing something that is moving, not just moving the needle from it.
Ken Adams: Uh, from an industry standpoint, from a technology standpoint, from a, a cybersecurity standpoint, but there's a human aspect of this that folks Oh yeah. Will feel like, and, and then one, one thing we guard there, one of the questions you had asked prior was, uh, you know, any, I can't, I'm not, I'm not spotting it at, at the moment, but the, we're very, uh, particular about when we're in session.
Ken Adams: It's a, not, it's a sales free zone.
Yohanna: Oh, okay. Yeah,
Ken Adams: so I think the Goys really [00:17:00] appreciate that. Like what, what folks talk about beforehand. Afterwards. That's a, but when we're in session, um, like Jason Miller asked me about the Atos code project. Is there a particular vendor bent? The answer is no. So I think that, uh, you know, we, we, we who are members of industry obviously sell a product or we sell services and, and that requires an exchange of money.
Ken Adams: You know, everybody gets that. Let's not kid ourselves. But, and then our, our federal, our federal and state friends, you know, they're just hit with a deluge of appeals and pitches and so on, and it just gets. You know, they kind of let their guard up and so on. I think they feel I, again, they can speak for themselves.
Ken Adams: My impression is they feel like this is a safe space. Where people are committed to the cause. Mm-hmm. Not just trying to sell your stuff, not just trying to get to me.
Yohanna: Yeah, absolutely. I I also like, you know, before I hit record, I, I was also thinking, I was also talking about how you're, you're self-aware.
Yohanna: I think that's a little bit of the secret sauce too, where we help folks kind of [00:18:00] be a little bit more self-aware. So with our professional development programs, all the exercises, you know, shout out to Sarah how, you know, creative she is with a lot of the things that they do. That's kind of like what we're.
Yohanna: Trying to help folks, you know, be a little bit more self-aware when you walk into a space and you're in session. This is not the time to, to sell anything. This is just a time for you to connect. And so that's one part of it. And also trusting yourself and help a
Ken Adams: cause greater than yourself. Oh
Yohanna: yeah. Help a cause greater than yourself to
Ken Adams: a cause.
Ken Adams: Greater.
Yohanna: Yeah. And, and I think folks don't always know and like they just have to kind of get, you know, just. Quickly reminded, this is what we're doing, this is the agenda right now. You know? Um, and then I think speaking to just Act IX history and their reputation, we build. Trust, like we build trust, we do the work to help you, trust us.
Yohanna: You know, we're not just saying trust us because we told you so. Like, no, look, look at what we're doing. This is how you know, this is what, this is who we are, et cetera. So, and I think
Ken Adams: again, they can [00:19:00] speak for themselves, but I think the goys on the whole recognize that there's something about this. You know, even if they're not necessarily, that's not necessarily my problem, that I recognize that they're helping.
Ken Adams: Either a particular person or particular, or, or people in general.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: That they see value in that, uh, that, that, you know, this is the power of collaboration. Um, I'd also say in certain circumstances that, uh, I have never been in, in, in attendance at a federal CISO council meeting, but I've heard enough about 'em that I like to consider what we have as a.
Ken Adams: A more comfortable, uh, lower key alternative to the federal CISO council that folks can let their hair down a little bit, maybe a little, be a little bit more vulnerable. There. They have to be a little bit more rigid and formal and so on. It's also about those folks developing professional relationships, providing them a forum to develop professional relationships that they might not have or an opportunity to do elsewhere.
Ken Adams: I've [00:20:00] seen that, like I've seen the birth of that relationship and that trust in, in front of my eyes before I'm having struggles with communication with the ic. You know, they're just not, it, it's not working for me. And, and another ciso, uh, responded and said, I'll help you out with that. Like, I didn't see that coming.
Ken Adams: Or in certain cases there's professional development, not the formal act I professional development programs, but we like to say. It's not just about the ultimate decision maker, you know, it's all about their subordinates, their peers and, and other organizations and so on, that within reason there's nothing we can't offer you.
Ken Adams: And what I mean by that is do you wanna, you know, is it public speaking? Do you want to get more technical? Do you need more exposure to what industry? You know, especially in this day and age where, uh. Trying to, trying to provide, uh, opportunities to collect between, for government to learn lessons from industry, how to do things more efficiently, maybe more effectively, look at things differently, different [00:21:00] perspectives and what have you.
Ken Adams: There's that. I even go back to when, uh, Bo Hauser was the deputy CISO at CMS. I think what he was looking for, I mean, my perspective on it was this was a mechanism, a, a platform for him for professional evolution to kind of like increase his name recognition and his brand. Um, all due credit to Beau, he's an exceptional guy, Navy veteran, um, just, just salt of the earth.
Ken Adams: But um, that he spoke to what we have monthly membership meetings. Third Thursday of the month, six o'clock, uh, we take December off. We, we used to have 'em Friday mornings forever, but the return to work mandate just prevented that from happening. And, and that's another, that's another key part of it too, right?
Ken Adams: Is we, we recognize that, that folks are choosing to spend time with us
Yohanna: mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: And delaying their commute home, not spending time with their family and so on. We have responsibility to make [00:22:00] sure that that time is tight and is well spent. But, but that, just to finish the bow story, that membership meetings, we feature a speaker rather than just saying, uh, what do you got for us?
Ken Adams: What's on your mind? What I, what I, what I've done More recently, I used this example with less call. I will finish the bow story eventually, but the less I said, you could come, you could brief something you have on the shelf. That's cool, that's okay. Or do you have a problem? That is, is you would like the input.
Ken Adams: From informed, experienced, insightful peers, federal, you know, other gubbies and members of industry, like be selfish. Use this time to get their input. 'cause of course you know that.
Yohanna: Mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: Then you have really a give and take and, and less found that, uh uh, quite helpful. To the point that that gave birth to a project, which I didn't anticipate.
Ken Adams: That's a zero trustworthy project.
Yohanna: Oh wow.
Ken Adams: And Les [00:23:00] felt like he got enough out of that. That was his first exposure to Randy Rasnick was supposed to have been the speaker. He couldn't do it. These things happened. He had a conflict or whatever. Les stepped in for him. He did. He had never heard the cyber steel I before.
Ken Adams: So not only did that engagement lead to a project, he's now on the board. So, but back to finish the, the bow story. Um. I think that got kind of wet his whistle to his own professional evolution. Um, and he leveraged that to become the CISO at
Yohanna: SBA. Yeah, look at that.
Ken Adams: And then ultimately Vonda, uh, his final, uh, position as a Fed was CISO at Census.
Ken Adams: So we take a little bit of credit for helping kind of propel him on his professional journey.
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Yohanna: If you had one minute with the next generation of public service innovators, what would you say to them
Ken Adams: on behalf of the group? I hope that genuine this is coming across in terms of, you know, what we're, yeah.
Ken Adams: It, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's not for everybody. There's certain cases where, um, this is not a, uh, you. Uh, who was our speaker last month? Austin Clark. Uh, enterprise Architect with DOT. Right. You can see the DOT people show up, or the USDA people show up and so on. This isn't for [00:25:00] them. I mean, like, whatever. Yeah.
Ken Adams: That, that's fine. I'm not like gonna turn 'em away at the door and so on.
Yohanna: Mm-hmm. The
Ken Adams: main thing that we're looking for is continuity.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: Are you interested enough to come back? What I'll say to some folks sometimes is if you're not gonna go to the second meeting, don't go to the first.
Yohanna: Okay. Yeah,
Ken Adams: it doesn't mean you're not well, but like we're really trying.
Ken Adams: 'cause new projects come up, new opportunities come up, and we don't want to have to be begging for new volunteers. So the best way to achieve that is for the other. The other thing we say all the time is like, we have ample spotlight to share. Please take some spotlight. I think that, you know, whether you're a small business owner who's paying your membership dues and you wanna see value in that, you're working for a behemoth company and you wanna kind of contribute to your own, uh, ascension through the organization and someone this can, this can help that too.
Yohanna: Yeah, that's good. Okay. What would you say to somebody, someone thinking [00:26:00] about joining a COI, I
Ken Adams: think just another point to get across is, uh, just the balance of the, the volunteer work with the, the full time.
Yohanna: Yeah,
Ken Adams: I talked about the non-sales, sales free zone, uh, environment that we set and so on. I've worked very hard for many years to build up trust to guard my integrity with these folks.
Ken Adams: I will not abuse that privilege.
Ken Adams: Yeah.
Ken Adams: As I engage with these folks in a day job capacity, I will literally say. In some instances day job hat on, you know, act I hat off day job hat on. I don't lead with I, I mm-hmm. I'll not operate under false pretense. Yeah. That they're very clear in what sense and in what capacity I'm operating.
Ken Adams: And I think that that comes across to others too, that they, you know, are. Are you okay if we talk day job stuff from time to time?
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: I think for the, you have to earn the right first. And then I think that, uh, if you don't abuse the privilege that they re their, they're exposing themselves to industry and that's part of what this engagement leads to.[00:27:00]
Ken Adams: Mm-hmm. And so on. But as long as you don't use that privilege. Um, but another point about it is when I talk about the board members, we meet four times a year, every three months, give or take, we have two membership meetings and then a board meeting, two membership meetings, and a board meeting. We recognize all the time, whether it be the appeal of the projects, there have been projects in the past, right?
Ken Adams: Like there was a. There was conversation that this years ago when it was only a fed audience, federal industry audience only about smart cities. It's a great project, interesting concept and so on. We just didn't think that would necessarily hold appeal to the federal audience per se. We talked about cyber insurance, which this is a few years back, we had 60 peop, 60 volunteers on day one, and chip lock by him was by himself on the last day.
Ken Adams: 'cause it just kind of, yeah, it, it wasn't, it the, it wasn't timely. Relative to this audience at the time I mentioned it before, right. You know, when we, we have to keep the meetings tight and relevant 'cause we're asking for their time on this. On the Sunday [00:28:00] evenings, we try to space things out properly so that.
Ken Adams: Um, you know, no disproportionate burden falls on any one person or project at a time, you know?
Ken Adams: Yeah. And
Ken Adams: then we all have deadlines and solicitations are released at a drop of a hat and so on. I think it's also that, like that next man or woman up kind of mindset to say
Yohanna: mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: Well, we recognize that person answers the call and checks the box so often that when they're, uh.
Ken Adams: They've got a deadline that they're facing on a deliverable or parish forbid, you know, they take time off, right? They're traveling with family or whatever. You know, PE people get sick, people have surgery. People care for loved ones and what have you. That they'll prob like, we got your back.
Yohanna: Hmm.
Ken Adams: I think that that is probably, if I had to boil it down to one thing, it's that, uh, that chemistry, that commitment that we have to one another.
Ken Adams: I think that may, that's that to me. Makes the volunteer day job stuff most [00:29:00] manageable because we empathize with one another and, and, and the volunteer things the same. I say in the day job all the time, if you do your job, you make my job. So
Yohanna: yeah,
Ken Adams: if you, it's, it's also setting proper expectations with people from the get go.
Ken Adams: When I recruit 'em from the board, here's the part of this, that may not be fun.
Yohanna: Yeah. That's how it works.
Ken Adams: Setting proper expectations, you know, this is, this is. This is tough. This is not, you know, this is
Yohanna: being explicit in putting it all out there. Yeah, it's good to know.
Ken Adams: Um, I think that helps a lot. So then when that challenge, or that intersection or that burden happens, at least we can say, well, I didn't, you know, we knew that was coming, sort of thing.
Ken Adams: So I think that makes it a little bit more manageable. Again, I, I keep going to this, but it's just so important 'cause it, it permeates so many different aspects of this existence. That chemistry again.
Yohanna: Mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: When you enjoy the collaboration and you enjoy the coming together, like Matt Sexton, my vice chair is not a morning person, so we have, we have, we [00:30:00] have, uh, leadership calls monthly at eight 30 on a Tuesday for, but you know, Matt, who is not necessarily off his own, wouldn't naturally be inclined to do it, is more inclined to do it because we actually look forward to the time we spend together.
Ken Adams: Then whatever the responsibility you have, you there are ACT IAC asks us to do annual work, uh, work plans. It's our homework assignment to say what do you plan to, what do you, what are you committing to do over the course of the year? Paul Cunningham with World with WWT is our collaboration chair. He represents us at collaboration Council.
Yohanna: Meetings. Mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: Uh, Matt Sexton has been heavily involved in planning and execution of El uh, Wendy Robinson is doing it this year for ELC because of that chemistry and looking forward to working with one another, then what otherwise could be a burden or obligation becomes a little less burdensome.
Ken Adams: Okay.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: I think makes it easier for folks to volunteer and then find that [00:31:00] balance, you know, when you do your volunteer thing, when you do your writing, when you do that work or what have you. I can't tell you when to do that, right? If you are you, you know, you wanna do it on Saturday, you wanna do it at two in the morning?
Ken Adams: Whatever, whatever works for you, just as long, we set proper, here's what, here's your corner of, in your niche responsibility for this greater group effort and, and contribution and so on. And then it's also leading by example. Are we doing that? You know, a lot of this is about how do we treat one another when it comes to deadlines and setting in those expectations.
Ken Adams: How do we run meetings? Yeah. You, you told me this isn't gonna be a salesy kind of place. Are you gonna, are you gonna honor your commitment Ka. So I also have, I, you know, I have responsibilities that I need to live up
Yohanna: to,
Ken Adams: to here. So
Yohanna: this is really fun. I mean, what, what do you think makes this kind of collaboration work?
Yohanna: You know, not just on paper, but, but in practice. What are some of the things that are, that you are doing, you know, behind the scenes? I know you mentioned, uh, [00:32:00] are there are secret sauce.
Ken Adams: There are a lot of really good organizations. There are a lot of good government entry collaborative organizations, not just act iac, right.
Ken Adams: You know, that, that. Um, I mentioned a few of 'em earlier when we were talking about collaboration. What I tell people all the time is just pick, you can so your wild notes. That's okay. And, and folks do volun, and Dave and I were talking about that the other week. Folks do volunteer for more than one organization.
Ken Adams: Yeah, that's cool. But my recommendation is, is raise your hands, lead and dive deep. You know, kind of, kind of set up, set up shop, um, someplace. I think it's that, that, uh, uh. Justin Bert called me a few weeks ago. I was, I was out on a hike and he asked me what's my, what's my role on the board? Um, and I said, if you don't mind, you know, kind of humoring some, I might lose connection here, you know, a little bit.
Ken Adams: But I said, remember, I didn't, I wasn't gonna tell you. Like we were gonna figure that out to, you know, like, let's work on, let's kind of chew on that together. [00:33:00] And, uh, I said, I said, uh, Melissa Mera is doing a great job of, of herding the cats to get the projects executed and completed. What we probably need from my perspective is one level up, maybe kind of a more, not holistic, but horizontal view, cross-cutting view, strategic view of what the projects are about.
Ken Adams: Um, is that something that you think would float your boat? So it sounds like in that case, I, I really want folks to come to their own conclusions, like where do we need help? We're a bunch of volunteers, right? That, um, we were, there was our last membership meeting. I hadn't seen the slides ahead of time, so I was making it up as we were running the meeting slide by slide.
Ken Adams: There was one slide that was missed, right? It wasn't the end of the world. It was, you know, and, and no big deal. Uh, James Saunders was able to, to shoot from the hip and, and provide his updates and so on, but we're, if this was a day job, [00:34:00] kind of performance assessment sort of thing, it'd be like, well, you don't, you know that, that wasn't great.
Ken Adams: For volunteers. Right. There's a certain amount of understanding that I think goes with it.
Yohanna: Yeah, I agree. Absolutely.
Ken Adams: But I can't say that we're not slacking, we're, we're kind of setting the pace and setting the tone and, and, and we have high expectations. So it's sort of what I asked board members and volunteers and so on is, uh, how do, how do you compliment what you do and you can do well with our need.
Ken Adams: Almo almost without exception, we'll say. Sounds good to us. Like bring it, help us out with that.
Yohanna: Yeah. Best idea wins. And, uh, yeah, I, I, I've always believed the best idea wins, and I also believe that you don't know what is missing if you're not engaged. Like someone can just tell you like, this is what's missing.
Yohanna: Like, you have to actually get in there and figure it out and see and say like, oh, I, I see, I see what's missing and this is what I can provide. You know,
Ken Adams: a hundred percent. I'm not [00:35:00] gonna tell you ahead of time.
Yohanna: Mm-hmm.
Ken Adams: And I'm not gonna expect that, you know, after the first meeting, but come, you know, kind of get a sense of our rhythm and our cadence and, and where we, you know, what we do well and what we don't do well.
Ken Adams: And then kind of self-assess for your own purposes and say, Hey, I've noticed this and I'm really good at that. Or I want to learn how to do that. Um, you know, Kemp, Janet Dro was, uh. It was funny when I asked him to be the co-chair of the communications, uh, group, he said, my wife's gonna find that really funny because she doesn't think I'm a great communicator.
Ken Adams: And I said, well, no better way to get to be better at it. And so on. I said, you don't have to be. A media professional, right. Or a podcast host to be the communication chair for a volunteer group and so on. It's like, you know what? You are in the seat of somebody that we're trying to communicate with. Like just put your,
Yohanna: oh, that's interesting.
Yohanna: Yeah.
Ken Adams: The empathy hat of your, of your peers and so on. How would we reach you or your, [00:36:00] your kind of person in your kind of role. I mean, hell, you know, be no better person. To, to figure that out than you.
Yohanna: That's good. That's great. Well, that's time.
Ken Adams: Thanks a lot.
Yohanna: Thank you very much. Appreciate you.
Ken Adams: Whatever.
Ken Adams: Have a nice weekend.
Yohanna: You too.
Ken Adams: I hope that was worth it.
Yohanna: Yeah. Thank you so much for your time.
Yohanna: Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Buzz. Stay tuned for more conversations and insights in future episodes. Until next time, stay curious and connected.